Self realization brought on by KS

[Renkinjutsushi]

Asperger or not, whatever you have, you are, you do, all I said was a very simple thing:

When you feel a little down, or almost crying, you have two choices:

A) You say sad things, you think about sadness, you cultivate those negative feeelings like evil plants that will eventually poison your heart, and you will obviously fall deeper in your sadness. It´s like when you are swimming, then you swallow some water... if you get in panic you will surely die.


But if you calm down, and move your arms, you get out of the water safely.

B) You stop those feelings, toughen yourself, and get off that. Look to another side. Don´t let sadness defeat you.

FEEL SHY? fORCE YOURSELF TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

Seriously? You don't understand the first thing about Asperger or Autism. They are persistent cognitive disabilities caused by changes in the brain present at birth. It doesn't matter how "tough" he wants to be, how hard he "forces" himself to talk to others. He doesn't have the same brain structure as you or I. It's not a matter of choice, it's a matter of brain structure and chemistry. Asking him to "force himself" to talk to people is almost like me asking you to force yourself to walk when you were born with no feet.

Common treatments for Asperger's Syndrome include cognitive therapy and medications. Harsh treatment or inappropriate discipline usually result in the person only withdrawing further.

You could at least try to understand somebody's medical condition before you post here.

[fabio.salvador]

I´m not ignoring someone's medical condition, and I would be the last person in the world to do such a thing. That´s not the course this conversation should have taken.

But I do believe that many people who have mild manifestations of mentalm psychiatric and psychological problems could lead a normal life if they did not just "accept" their "sick person" condition.

I myself... as I grew up, my parents noticed that something was wrong. For a time I saw some psychologists and stuff. Then I grew up and I chose not to seek any kind of diagnosis. Although I have my own issues in the inside, my "acting" in the role of a normal person is quite convincing. And I even managed to have relatively successful life up to this moment. And you know... when you get yourself busy, you don´t have time to fall into deep depression. When I say busy, I am not talking about work only, but also about having fun. Human mind (at least, mine) is like and old car in which the engine keeps "dying" by himself: if you keep it running at high rotation speeds, it will not die out.

Of course, I will not lead my life this way forever. I´ll eventually retire. But I am young, so I don´t have to think about that now. Tomorrow is tomorrow. Today everything´s okay.

BUT DON´T YOU UNDERSTAND ME WRONG... I´m talking about mild problems, of course. Asperger´s something very serious. In fact I don´t know why I jumped over this information about the poster´s condition. Must be a little distracted, sorry.

AH! And let´s talk a little about the main subject of this thread: Katawa Shoujo is a great experience. i never tought of disabled girls as real women, and the game really started and entire "revolution" inside my brain. In fact, I discovered myself stuck to the "beauty standard" imposed by society, and discovered that it was an absolute concept.

[fabio.salvador]

Continuing my line of tought:--->>>

In fact I think that playing KS is a necessary and healthy step that every man should take once in a lifetime at least. Because there´s so much propaganda, so much "praying" of a certain standard of "perfectness" and "beauty", that as years go by, we start to believe that a woman has to be just the idealized model we see on magazines, and you start to, to a certain degree, think that the normal women around us are not beautiful women.

That´s when you play KS. In the beginning, it is a weird experience. You feel a little ashamed of doing that. You think "what am I? A pervert?". But then you find yourself really loving all the stuff, and feeling attraction to the girls. Then you finish playing, and you start to realize that even real girls with disabilities can be amazing people, fun people, beautiful people. And your "brain-washed standarizes beauty concept" is finally defied by those new toughts, those new visions about beauty.

It´s a true life-changin expercience, I must say.

[CrimsonMoonMist]

I've tried to just go without stopping, in fact, I didn't actually get diagnosed with this condition before not all that long ago because I simply refused to open up and was too used to just grinding my teeth and hoping things would just get better if I didn't get too invested in things.
It might work for some, but when I force myself into situations, I do so by turning off my thinking, and that's not a figure of speech,
I literally stop processing any emotional thought to focus on the situation at hand,
and I just end up with a whole load of nothing one way or the other by the end of the day
even if I did what I was supposed to do.

That being said, there are things one just have to do.
For example, my psychiatrist and I talked about the problem in regard to taking contact with unfamiliar people at my workplace in the morning
(It's fine once I get working, but I have a hard time just telling the guy behind the counter that I'll be working there today, it's silly),
and I simpy had to admit that that is something I'll just have to do on my own when the time comes,
frying your brain trying to come up with temporary workarounds for something like that'll just further deepen the problem in the long run.
Still, when the whole day becomes unpersonal and forced, that's where I'll need to draw a line and figure out another approach.
There's a difference between putting oneself in challenging situations because it's necessary or for experience
and just forcing one's way through. I can get through whatever I need by force,
but I won't actually learn anything by it.

I've taken contact with the local meeting place for young adults with aspergers/high-functioning autism,
so I'll be going there after easter's over. Think I'll take a book with me and just take in the atmosphere for a while instead of forcing myself to take part in their provided activities in the beginning and work my way up from there and see how that goes.

Continuing my line of tought:--->>>

Thank you! This thread wasn't supposed to be only about me,
I mean, I'm glad people want to talk and I'm happy to reply,
but my main goal with this thread was that I'd like to hear a bit about other people's experiences as well.

[fabio.salvador]

It´s nice to see someone who deals with those subjects in such a natural way.

It´s very hard to deal with such issues by the "keep going" way, and indeed, I think that I should act more like you, instead of trying to convince you to acto more like me.

Thanks.

[KILLTHIS]

Now, I have the Aspergers mental disability,
a extremely clear case at that,
Except for one part, that is the part about us coming off as emphatic.
Now, outside of my disability's problems, I have a bad case of not letting things go,
I can, and most likely will voice my opinion numerous times with different kinds of vocabularic wording every time,
often bringing it up days later if I come up with a way to say it that I feel sound more 'right'.
Clearly this fixation with bringing up everything is the total opposite of sounding emphatic and is a totally unrelated personal fault.
At least I thought it was unrelated...

Hey there, CrimsonMoonMist,
as being someone who has to deal with Aspergers myself, I think I am able to relate to your case. If I "see" a mistake in someones spelling and such, I just feel the urge to "solve" that - and I can also relate to the need of using new words in a proper manner, sometimes I do it even just for the sake of it. (perhaps that's why I tend to use english over my native language... I just like the sound and the structure.)

... So! why do Aspergers cases come off as empathic?
Answer! it's because our way of processing thoughts and bringing them out with words are abnormal
as well as the shaping of our childhood due to our way of seeing only our creative trigger (the interest we 'block out the world' to focus on),
causing social interacting to take a backseat.
Moreover we are almost blind to body language so we take people's words matter-of-factly, not by their emotional state
and communicate back in a similar blunt fashion,
hence things like the problem of picking up sarcasm (I've become quite good at noticing the tone of people's voices though if I do say so myself)
So, my point here is: I do think I have the mental hardwiring that cause us to be branded as empathic,
the difference is the way I tackle these thoughts.

Yeah, I had to learn it as well in the hard way. Sarcasm is sometimes a pain in the arse, especially when I am not sure if it's sarcastic now or not.
Also being one of those guys who tend to say what he thinks (Even though I've learned to restrain myself) I am usually just as comforting as a rock, and cynical even though I don't intend to. Well at least not always.

Your normal case say it like they think it, it makes sense to them, so it probably does to everyone else and leave it at that.
I am aware my wording may make my actual reason go over people's heads,
so I switch up my vocabulary and, to put it bluntly, say what amounts to the same thing over and over and over and over,
probably distancing myself from my original intent in hope that,
even if my words don't all make sense,
even if I can't get my intent out in one clean statement,
maybe they can pick up what they do understand from my multiple revisions and eventually come to understand what I mean bits by pieces.
To say it right out, the mysteriously missing part of my disability and the seemingly unrelated personal shortcoming
was one and the same.

Yeah... I know that as well. I tend to mean the "right thing" but being unable to show it the "right way" in the same time. It's not an easy thing and I am probably not much of help, but I somehow want to cheer you up - I mean, you're not the only one out there, if that fact might help ya.

Does that make any sense?
Somehow I don't think It does, maybe it comes off as offending?
Either way, I'm sticking to this first way of laying my words out as a testament that I can take a step to change it,
even though it may actually go over people's heads or come out wrong as predicted.
At least I might spark some stories from anyone else.

I guess it actually DOES make sense... to me everyone's unique - and I am open with my disability to actually respond to mimics or gestures. The more I get into KS at the same time shows me how less I think about most people. But at the same time I also know that I probably will never be able to get all these unwritten rules of conversations and such. It's hard sometimes, but I think that doesn't mean that people are not able to like me - or you - or anyone - either.
The thing is - people just need to understand, if you ask me. Once they get it, they can handle it. Let me tell you a short story of mine.

My parents divorced years ago and I was never good at dealing with my dad. He always had something that scared me and... lots of bad memories come up with him.
But that doesn't mean I think of him as a bad person - once I understood why he did something, I was able to forgive - and even get used to some things which appeared strange to me all the time.
He always complained about my lifestyle as well. Being all alone, unwilling to meet and greet people or to experience new stuff. But once I've got my diagnosis, things seemed to get worse on one hand, while they got better on the other hand.
See, by now I've got way more self-esteem, because I know I DON'T NEED TO be like other people. Most people I know finally understood and accepted that. Living a life isn't a bad thing - and the way you live doesn't matter either (as long as you don't hurt anyone ) - that's also a thing KS taught me as well.
But to get back to my story: I was worried about my dad, maybe not accepting or understanding what actually was "wrong" with me. There wasn't anything. I was just unique like everyone else. But now he was able to address why - and he respects that and is able to accept my habits. And I guess, after all, that's what matters.
To understand.

P.S.: Sorry If this might be a little bit off or confusing, but I somewhat felt this to be necessary.

[fabio.salvador]

"Because I don´t NEED to be like other people"... true.

But sometimes it´s just convenient to look like other people. Our society rewards conformation, standarization and the ordinary.

And this is another sadly true thing to know.


(about spelling errors: I will make a lot of them... my native language is Portuguese and if I write in any other language while distracted, I tend to do a lot of mistakes)

[KILLTHIS]

"Because I don´t NEED to be like other people"... true.

But sometimes it´s just convenient to look like other people. Our society rewards conformation, standarization and the ordinary.

And this is another sadly true thing to know.


(about spelling errors: I will make a lot of them... my native language is Portuguese and if I write in any other language while distracted, I tend to do a lot of mistakes)

Don't worry, I'm not perfect either.

Yeah, it's somewhat strange. Yet I know... perfection comes out of the spots which bother us. Why not in society? People in wheelchairs are luckily protected (at least at most spots I know) - but people with other issues are turned down. I somehow try to stay optimistic that society will address such problems soon enough - and finally get in to change that. Differences are necessary, sure. But only to give us a second point of view. Everything else - well, I can't really tell why I should make a problem out of it. Sure, I've got my things with other people, like too loud voices and such, yep. But in the end the character matters - and if I can't get along with someone, I just go away and avoid that person. No need to fight, right?

[fabio.salvador]

KILLTHIS, I will tell you why people on wheelchairs tend to be weel trated in our society and other disbaled people are not: POLITICS!!!

Yes! Somehow someone realizes that people on wheelchairs, trying to climb a sidewalk, were an enough dramatic thing to gather the sympathy of the public. Then they inventd an entire code of laws (it happened in Brazil, in the USA...) to force some points... like putting ramps in public buildings, and this kind of stuff. It earned them votes!

Asperger´s a relatively new thing in the public eye, and it hasn´t the same dramatic effect. Then it hasn´t the same VOTE-MAKING effect. Ergo, politicians do not care about it;

It´s an unfair world, I tell you...

[KILLTHIS]

Yeah, but I wasn't exactly going for politics, fabio. Even though it's a good fact to know.
I've meant the defense from being bullied for example. I think the community just has to care for others - even though KS taught me, that sometimes help can also mean to let down your own pride - and some may feel hurt about it.
And yet, I agree to your last sentence. It's been there, but never that clearly. And lately it became somewhat of an "in-Thing", ya know? Like it would be cool to have Aspergers. Some people never even get a diagnosis and just keep on telling such things, not knowing what they're doing by saying so. If I had the chance, I'd probably give in a lot of my talents in order to be just as "normal" as most other people are.
Maybe I couldn't remember single words so well or even huge amounts of stuff I already know - but if it would make it easier for me to be together with other people then I'd call that a fair deal.
Yet I know that this is impossible and I try to do my best to handle my situation - like everyone does, right? So I still think I just have to find my way in this mess, but I surely will as long as I keep on trying.

[CrimsonMoonMist]

P.S.: Sorry If this might be a little bit off or confusing, but I somewhat felt this to be necessary.

Don't worry, I understand very well and I really appreciate hearing how other cases (won't use that 'aspie' word, sound like some kind of slang) think and how I compare.

perhaps that's why I tend to use english over my native language... I just like the sound and the structure.)

Right on the mark! I'm absolutely terrible at my native language to the point where I have to add english words in now and then when I speak
because I think in english, so when translating my thoughts, words sometimes get lost on me, guess it's the after-effect of being self-taught.
I was even accused of cheating on an english exam because it sounded too natural,
they never did find any sort of 'source' which I could have copied it from, but I sure as hell couldn't have wrote it
(it was pretty terrible as well all things considered since I had a tendency to overuse commas).
Last year when I managed to attend reasonably well, I did get a clear message that I was at the top of the class in the subject
and they assured me that they gave me the highest mark they could and that I would have scored a perfect 6
had it not been for the lack of material they could judge from.
I was a bit proud but also a bit sad that I had managed to neglect my own culture to such an extent.

Anyways.
Like you, I found a certain kind of solace in knowing why I am like I am and it largely restored my self-esteem
since I could finally attach a logical reason to my broken thought process,
Plus I very much enjoy independently researching the subject and exchanging opinions between me and my psychiatrist.
Especially now that I can finally see it from the emotional standpoint as well.

Asperger´s a relatively new thing in the public eye, and it hasn´t the same dramatic effect. Then it hasn´t the same VOTE-MAKING effect. Ergo, politicians do not care about it;

It´s an unfair world, I tell you...

Methinks things like Aspergers and the like don't get much focus because we aren't broken, we're just hardwired a bit differently, but we still function all things considered.
plus I think people like to 'help' others to reassure themselves, so naturally, the more visibly disabled people are more attractive to help.
Heck, many of the doctors at the hospital not acquaintanced with me doesn't actually know what the disability means,
and with medicine being one of my 'trigger' interests, I get visibly annoyed when kept in the dark about whatever procedure currently going on with me,
The ones I know always address me on a relatively even footing and even seem genuinely pleased by my investment in my situation.
Granted the plastic surgeon involved with all my operations is a bit on the eccentric side, so maybe that's why we get along well.

[KILLTHIS]

Don't worry, I understand very well and I really appreciate hearing how other cases (won't use that 'aspie' word, sound like some kind of slang) think and how I compare.

And like you, I found a certain kind of solace in knowing why I am like I am and it largely restored my self-esteem
since I could finally attach a logical reason to my broken thought process,
Plus I very much enjoy independently researching the subject and exchanging opinions between me and my psychiatrist.
Especially now that I can finally see it from the emotional standpoint as well.

Methinks things like Aspergers and the like don't get much focus because we aren't broken, we're just hardwired a bit differently, but we still function all things considered.
plus I think people like to 'help' others to reassure themselves, so naturally, the more visibly disabled people are more attractive to help.
Heck, many of the doctors at the hospital not acquaintanced with me doesn't actually know what the disability means,
and with medicine being one of my 'trigger' interests, I get visibly annoyed when kept in the dark about whatever procedure currently going on with me,
The ones I know always address me on a relatively even footing and even seem genuinely pleased by my investment in my situation.
Granted the plastic surgeon involved with all my operations is a bit on the eccentric side, so maybe that's why we get along well.

That's good to hear. I think it's better to be optimistic and work around the obstacle if ya can't climb it. The thing is to get to the other side, right? Even though I know there are no shortcuts on my path, I still try to walk it.
Won't be perfect, but hey - standing still doesn't solve anything either.

And yep, most people look clueless once they find out what's "wrong" with me (if you want to put it like that) or just shut their mouths because they feel like they've insulted me in a heavy way.
I try to be cool and easy with it. Thing is, getting angry over it doesn't make it any better. Sure, there are times when I feel down for it, empty somewhat while facing everyone else socializing and being nice to each other, while I stand cast aside. Yet I remind myself on my strengths, which impress lots of people, as far as I know at least, even though I don't pay my attention so much on it. Comes by naturally, eh? Maybe it's sometimes to best to stop looking onto the dark side of the moon in order to get things fixed for yourself and finally get the grip to do the next step.

Either I am overly positive right now or I should see a psychiatrist as well (hadn't done that after my diagnosis, but I do fine anyways) - even though I wouldn't like the idea of getting locked up in a madman's jacket.

Reminds me on one last thing I couldn't get out of my head for days now: It's only an elephant as long as you make one out of it.

[fabio.salvador]

YOU FEEL SAD WHEN YOU SEE OTHERS SOCIALIZING?

Well, let me tell you one thing I learned throughout life...

The budists DO get it right when they say that desire is the origin of our pain: when you are a social outcast of some sort, you keep thinking that easy-talking people must be happier and stuff.

but the turth is that you experience some anxiety and starts living in a rush when you get even a little popular. you start to care too much what others think. And most people who seem to like you... they don´t like you! They are there just because you are cool, or have something they need.

I have my own life experiences, with my unlikely situation of being a total loner and outcast during school years, and then growing up to become somewhat popular. I developed my own view about all that stuff... and I think people who were "born popular" do not see the shallowness of the "friendship" dedicated by most of their "friends". But once this cool, loved and popular person fall on social scale, become ugly, or something that "lessens" that person´s value, most "friends" will disappear.

We have a lesson to learn from Hanako: she has only two dolls and a chess board, but she sees her few belongings as being something so valuable, she really likes them and enjoys those things. Sometimes, people have so much and don´t see how rich they are. With friends it´s the same... it´s better talk to a few people in the world and enjoy the time you spend with those people, than having tons of "friends" who can not make you happier.

When I was a teenager I tried to hang on with the "cool" guys of the school, and eventually succeeded. But it was not fun to go out with people who acted like jerks and had all that "I´m cool, I can do whatever I want, i can bully the weird boys" attitude, which did not fit me. Then I managed to change my everyday friend to a smaller group, the school "nerds", whose activities and points of view fitted me better.

You do not have to talk to everyone in order to be happy. It´s better to befiend the right ones.



I´M SORRY for my bad English... I stayed away from foreign Internet Forums for more than a year, so I forgot half of what I knew of the language... and there´s no Prtuguese-speaking Katawa Shoujo forum, so...

[KILLTHIS]

YOU FEEL SAD WHEN YOU SEE OTHERS SOCIALIZING?

Well, let me tell you one thing I learned throughout life...

The budists DO get it right when they say that desire is the origin of our pain: when you are a social outcast of some sort, you keep thinking that easy-talking people must be happier and stuff.

Yep, I know that. Sometimes it's just hard being unable to socialize at least a little.

but the turth is that you experience some anxiety and starts living in a rush when you get even a little popular. you start to care too much what others think. And most people who seem to like you... they don´t like you! They are there just because you are cool, or have something they need.

Sure, different situations cause different problems, no doubt on that. I don't want to be popular... just being able to make friends with more ease. Most people are just turned away once they realize they don't get through to me via short term stuff. That's not that bad, though, but yet being unable to tell something about yourself when they ask to tell something - it just sucks. Like a huge wall between me and other people.

I have my own life experiences, with my unlikely situation of being a total loner and outcast during school years, and then growing up to become somewhat popular. I developed my own view about all that stuff... and I think people who were "born popular" do not see the shallowness of the "friendship" dedicated by most of their "friends". But once this cool, loved and popular person fall on social scale, become ugly, or something that "lessens" that person´s value, most "friends" will disappear.

We have a lesson to learn from Hanako: she has only two dolls and a chess board, but she sees her few belongings as being something so valuable, she really likes them and enjoys those things. Sometimes, people have so much and don´t see how rich they are. With friends it´s the same... it´s better talk to a few people in the world and enjoy the time you spend with those people, than having tons of "friends" who can not make you happier.

Sure, no doubt. But I somehow even lose the very few people I thought being my friends after all. They just seem to be unable to live with my way. I'm... well, I just don't bother someone out of the blue just in order to say something. And being all "How are you?" "Fine"-thing everyday... it just gets meaningless, you know? Sometimes I don't talk to someone for weeks, yet I don't feel bad about it. But every now and then I surely ask about the situation of someone I consider being a friend or at least someone I like. Yet they just turn away from me. So I'm in the situation of having probably no real friends at all. I can surely live with that, but it's depressing even for me - and I surely enjoy the little things and would never ask for something. I don't even like birthdays. I don't want people to give me presents just because they think they have to. They should do it when they feel like it, not because they think they have to. And even little things are... very precious. I normally just can't show it in a proper way.

When I was a teenager I tried to hang on with the "cool" guys of the school, and eventually succeeded. But it was not fun to go out with people who acted like jerks and had all that "I´m cool, I can do whatever I want, i can bully the weird boys" attitude, which did not fit me. Then I managed to change my everyday friend to a smaller group, the school "nerds", whose activities and points of view fitted me better.

You do not have to talk to everyone in order to be happy. It´s better to befiend the right ones.

I´M SORRY for my bad English... I stayed away from foreign Internet Forums for more than a year, so I forgot half of what I knew of the language... and there´s no Prtuguese-speaking Katawa Shoujo forum, so...

First off all: You're english is fine! Mine isn't perfect, so don't bother with such things.
All I want, to be precisely - would be the ability to handle friendships a bit easier - or at least make friends a bit easier. I don't want fake ones, and I surely don't want to be "that popular guy" to hang with. I just... well, I just want real friends who accept me the way I am. Yet if I am not able to do so, I still have to do my best about my situation. And if people think they can ignore me and just get to me when they want something - I surely learned how to tell a person to go and f... themselves.

[newnar]

Continuing my line of tought:--->>>

In fact I think that playing KS is a necessary and healthy step that every man should take once in a lifetime at least. Because there´s so much propaganda, so much "praying" of a certain standard of "perfectness" and "beauty", that as years go by, we start to believe that a woman has to be just the idealized model we see on magazines, and you start to, to a certain degree, think that the normal women around us are not beautiful women.

That´s when you play KS. In the beginning, it is a weird experience. You feel a little ashamed of doing that. You think "what am I? A pervert?". But then you find yourself really loving all the stuff, and feeling attraction to the girls. Then you finish playing, and you start to realize that even real girls with disabilities can be amazing people, fun people, beautiful people. And your "brain-washed standarizes beauty concept" is finally defied by those new toughts, those new visions about beauty.

It´s a true life-changin expercience, I must say.

You speak truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I fully salute.