Hisao's little bundle of joy

[encrypted12345]

I've gotten to the end of Shizune's route already. I'm still not confident about her having any (or at least good) maternal instincts. To be honest, Shiz's plot confused me a bit.

Am I missing something here?

Why yes, yes you are. Shizune's route is insanely subtle.

[Paddy]

I've gotten to the end of Shizune's route already. I'm still not confident about her having any (or at least good) maternal instincts. To be honest, Shiz's plot confused me a bit.

Am I missing something here?

Why yes, yes you are. Shizune's route is insanely subtle.

I will check that out. But later! I've got to catch the bus!

[Megumeru]

I've gotten to the end of Shizune's route already. I'm still not confident about her having any (or at least good) maternal instincts. To be honest, Shiz's plot confused me a bit.

Am I missing something here?

Why yes, yes you are. Shizune's route is insanely subtle.

Would you like a 4000 word essay with it?

[Bigbishounen]

You forgot to mention that masturbation is technically a genocide, you know?
And I can't really know what this rubber utensil has to do with being faithful to your significant other, married or not.

So while I don't really consider an abortion a viable option for dealing with unplanned pregnancy, I can't back you up all the way there.

Also, with a basis of such an orthodox wiev of life, how were you able to enjoy an erotic game, about unmarried delinquents' amorous adventures? With pictures? Oh, their sinfull ways...

Well, I'm NOT orthodox in any way (I think my status as "Official KS Boards Dirty Old Man" makes that pretty clear.) Yet I'm pretty much right with Paddy, at least as far as Abortion is concerned. Disagree with Paddy on contraception though, with the exception of the "Morning After" pill as that is essentially Abortion too.

My opposition to it stems from both a general love of all human life and the desire to not cause harm to the innocent. What is more innocent than a freshly conceived baby? Nothing I know of. Yet we as a society have somehow become so twisted that we deem these people "Un-people" and an inconvenience to be simply done away with. It's appalling.

We know from biology that these are fully and completely human beings right down to their genome. A conceived human, even while still a single cell is unique and different from any other cell in a woman's body. It is the only thing within her that will, given time, become a self-sustaining being. Yet we use ridiculous semantic arguments and talk of women's rights (50% of aborted babies are female. Don't THEY have rights too??) as though anyone could have the "right" to just do away with another human being because they are an inconvenience. Abhorrent.

We sit and claim moral superiority to our "barbaric" ancestors because we, enlightened scientific beings, have risen above their petty moral arguments and their hypocritical dark ages religious wars and the evil of slavery, yet we turn a blind eye to the MILLIONS we slaughter in the name of "convenience". Understand; We are no better than they as long as this horror continues.

I'd like to relate a personal story if I may. As many of you know I am a father. I am also 40 years old, and my wife is 41. Yet last year, my wife discovered that she was pregnant with our 3rd child. Now, as I have stated, I have nothing against contraceptive measures. My wife cannot use the pill due to her age and due to issues with the chemistry conflicting with some other medication she is on, so we have used condoms. We had discussed surgical sterilization for one of us, but I wasn't comfortable putting my wife though the extensive surgery to have her tubes tied, and I was WAY to freaked out about having knives anywhere near my tackle to be able to go through with a vasectomy. (I know. I'm a coward. So sue me.) So we continued to use condoms. Hated them, but used them.

Then, one failed.

It didn't break, it LEAKED. (possibly a small flaw in the material, hard to say. But I know none broke, and I always used one so...) Regardless, we found ourselves suddenly expecting a third baby. As you can imagine this was quite a shock. We went though all sorts of emotional states, and for one terrible moment, even considered an abortion. We very quickly rejected that idea. Just thinking about it made us both feel sick and dirty. It wasn't the last time we would feel that way.

We eventually accepted, warmed to, and even became a bit excited about having another child. I had always wanted to have three, but with both our first having ASD we figured that the risk of another was too great, so we simply tried to avoid having another. Right around 6 weeks we went in for the regular sonogram checkup of the baby, and the doctor said that he was concerned about something on the sonagram and wanted a second opinion. He wouldn't say what it was though. So we went to the referred specialist at another local hospital and that was when we first heard the words "Your baby has Spina Bifida".

You can't imagine the pain. To JUST have gotten over the shock of having an unplanned pregnancy, and then just as you have accepted the change, to hear that your child has a life-threatening condition that will almost certainly leave her partially paralyzed... It's beyond description what that does to you.

It was at this time that Abortion was brought up yet again, this time by the doctor. Apparently this is the point when many women choose to simply kill the baby rather than give it a shot at life. After all, it has Spina Bifida. It's BROKEN, and not worth what a healthy baby is worth, right? I mean, why curse your baby to a life as a CRIPPLE? Better to simply kill it and save it (and yourself) from the pain and suffering... 80% of all babies diagnosed with Spina Bifida are aborted within the first Trimester. Because of twisted, fucked up logic like that.

As an aside, if you haven't learned from KS just how fucked up that kind of logic is, then you have learned nothing from KS. Go play Hanako's Bad Ending route AGAIN.

But, as I said, we had accepted that we were going to have a baby. Now it was just a matter of what to do about it. My wife's OBGYN referred us to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia as they had a procedure available that held great promise to possibly heal our baby. So we traveled to CHoP and went through a 3 day interview and examination process. We met multiple doctors, nurses, and a social worker. at least THREE TIMES during that trip we were offered Abortion as an option. By the third time i was so upset about it I exploded at the doctor who suggested it "WHAT THE FUCK IS YOU PEOPLE'S PROBLEM? WHY DO YOU KEEP SUGGESTING WE KILL OUR BABY? ARE YOU HERE TO SAVE LIVES OR NOT? DON'T YOU HAVE TO TAKE SOME KIND OF HIPPOCRATIC OATH OR SOMETHING?!?!?!?!?!? My wife had to calm me down. I think I embarrassed her.

At any rate I apologized to the doctor, and he said it was OK. Apparently I wasn't the first to "pop" like that. I guess they are REQUIRED to suggest Abortion at least three times by PA state law (How screwed up is that?) and they hate doing it. Ironically, they have found that the parents that get the most upset by the suggestion are usually the most dedicated to their children's health, so I guess that's a point in my favor anyway.

As it turns out we were a "borderline" case for the procedure. What with my wife's age, her history of previous caesareans and some other issues, there was a real risk to her own life if we went through with it. Also, since our baby was 4L, the procedure was unlikely to elicit any real improvement. There could be SOME help in that it would prevent any further worsening of her condition, but it wouldn't "fix" her. In the end we talked and cried and even prayed about it, and decided not to go through with it. Instead we decided on the traditional route of a cesarean birth and then post-birth surgery to repair the lesion on our daughter's back. In the end it turns out she didn't get any worse. Her feet don't work, she has no sensation below the ankles, and she needed a shunt to help drain the fluids from her brain to due to a Chiarri type 2 brain malformation,(sounds scarier than it is) but everything else is perfect. She is a gorgeous, good natured, active and alert baby girl.

I can't pretend to know what the future holds for her, or for us. She may still develop ASD like her brother and sister. She may be perfectly average. She may be a singer (she has the lungs for it!). She may help pioneer new breakthroughs in spinal repair. She may even walk one day. I don't know. But I do know one thing for certain; if we had decided for Abortion, she would do nothing. She wouldn't exist. And we would never ever ever have had this moment:

Lauren Smile.jpg (119.16 KiB) Viewed 4495 times

Why do we so easily deny these moments? Why do we destroy this innocence in the millions? Why haven't we learned how precious life is? Why are we still so backward and barbaric? Why can't we be better?

[Tomate]

I cant understand all the fuzz and/or bible bashing with Abortion, if we only followed a single rule: Everyone does the thing that would bring the maximum of happiness to oneself and bring less pair to others.

I do believe that aborting after 6 months of pregnancy is a dickish thing to do. Fetuses develop consciousness by the 26th week of gestation, before that its not a human being, hell, it cant perceive the world or itself.

If one thinks that abortion its a good idea and one can live it down with the choice, abortion is the way to go.
If one thinks that abortion its not a good idea and that the fetus life is sacred ,then no abortion will be done.

People can think its murder, or that its wrong, against their religion or plain immoral, but its a choice, as long it does not bring suffering to others its all right, you can not approve, but then again you don't have to.

[encrypted12345]

Text and daw-inducing picture

What is is with this forum and its strange power to evoke life stories out of people. Well, whatever. Might as well get this off my chest.

Ahem. During my little sister's third trimester, she was said to have a high chance of getting down syndrome. Of course, being only ten at the time, I had no choice in the matter. But my parents simply said no, end of story. They're the type of parents who'll refuse to give their son Prozac when their 4 year old son gets diagnosed with autism (Thankfully for me, that diagnosis was off.), so it's nothing really new for them.

She's eight right now and almost 9. Fortunately, she got lucky and didn't get Down's syndrome. She's annoying, grating, bitchy, abusive, tactless, semi-insane, moody, and clingy, but I love her very much. Even if she had Down's syndrome, I'm pretty sure I would still love her, so logically, I hate abortion.

Paddy, you mentioned adoption centers, and I agree that people should use them instead of abortion. It's a shame a significant amount of people ACT LIKE THEY DON'T EXIST!!!!!! /rant

The main reason that out-right banning them is somewhat of a bad idea is that some women would resort to dangerous illegal abortions. Yeah, I don't like that reason either.

People can think its murder, or that its wrong, against their religion or plain immoral, but its a choice, as long it does not bring suffering to others its all right, you can not approve, but then again you don't have to.

I know. Everyone has their circumstances, and even if abortion was illegal, there would still be abortions. I don't hate the people who do abortions if they have a justified reason for it. I can argue, but in the end, it's one's choice. So all I can do is to learn how to argue well.

[NoOne3]

If you don't want children, just don't have sex.

Being a morally dubious person, it made me think of a foolproof way of reducing the number of car accidents to nill. Don't drive a car.
But it earns you a cincerity point, since you're not trying to bluff your way with a calendar method, like many roman catholics does.

Disagree with Paddy on contraception though, with the exception of the "Morning After" pill as that is essentially Abortion too.

You might need an update about how ordinary hormone contraception works, like this one here. Have to exclude the pill too, according to your definition.

So what do you do when a condom fails?

We (no I in a team, right?) would start preparing for having a kid. We had a "flat tire" situation once and never even thought of using a day-after. Oh god, what am I doing, discussing such a private matter with a total strangers, on an ero-game forum.

It made me sad when I realised that we're not gonna discuss anything here. All can be done is shouting our thruths to each other, while standing on a rock-hard shore of our own beliefs. Let's not. My beliefs might not be as unshakable as some people like to think about theirs, but still I'm standing by my lukewarm, nonextremist ideas (i'm of the ones that will be spit out, I guess).

What is is with this forum and its strange power to evoke life stories out of people.

I haven't got even a clue to the idea, why the fuck it is happening on this forum again, and again (pardon my french, it's for the much needed emphasis).

[Paddy]

*amazing story*

You just made my day. God bless you and yours, whether you believe in Him or not.
Pro-life atheists/liberals give me a bit of hope for humanity.

*another wonderful story*

Paddy, you mentioned adoption centers, and I agree that people should use them instead of abortion. It's a shame a significant amount of people ACT LIKE THEY DON'T EXIST!!!!!! /rant

Not to mention, there are so many looking to adopt. If my mother had aborted me, as her friends down at the meat packing plant suggested when she was pregnant with me, I would not have made it to the arms of my mother and father (may he rest in peace). And chances are, neither would my sister. (Strangely, I have much the same opinion of my sister as you do of yours. But I still want the best for her. I hope she wants that, too.)

The main reason that out-right banning them is somewhat of a bad idea is that some women would resort to dangerous illegal abortions. Yeah, I don't like that reason either.

Ah... I forgot about that.

The risks of illegal abortion are concerning. But the fact is legal abortion isn't much better. A former member of NARAL (a pro-choice organization) and professional abortionist by the name of Dr. Bernard Nathanson wrote about the risks abortion can - and has - carried on its patients.

Now, I'm wont to blame the deaths simply on abortion itself. But, perhaps to make a concession, perhaps the problem is that abortion is treated so much like a business by those who carry the abortions out. Abortionists, at least to Dr. Nathanson, seemed not to care much about the welfare of the patient so long as they paid, had the abortion, and kept quiet about any side effects of it. Real doctors actually care, at least enough that their patient makes it out of the hospital without anything serious. They care if they make mistakes that end up hurting someone's life.

The honest-to-God situation of abortion in America seems to be that abortionists don't care about anything but the money and covering their asses if something goes wrong.

I'm not saying pro-choice women necessarily are trying to earn a quick buck. Some of them really do have a concern for the family, too, and want to see abortion be rare. And that's admirable.

But, if we can't shut out abortion completely in America, I would like to do this: make it an unprofitable, unrewarding, undesirable last resort. The killing of the innocence should never, ever be a business, much less a lucrative one. That's perhaps the most appalling thing about abortion in America.

If you don't want children, just don't have sex.

Being a morally dubious person, it made me think of a foolproof way of reducing the number of car accidents to nill. Don't drive a car.
But it earns you a cincerity point, since you're not trying to bluff your way with a calendar method, like many roman catholics does.

No cars? Fine by me. Terrifying to fly down the interstate at 60 MPH anyway. (Long story.)
I wouldn't mind augmenting the public transit systems of this country, or returning to the old days of "walk to wherever you need to go, or have an animal pull you".

Actually, now that you mention it, NFP is useful both for spacing children and helping infertility, too. NFP's advanced a lot since the rhythm method; even women with irregular periods can very successfully use modern NFP either to get pregnant, or to reduce the natural chances of it. I'm not sure I myself approve of using NFP to space children. But I suppose so long as you are aware of the risks, and you are willing to accept them, NFP's not wrong. Perhaps because it's a built-in method to space children.

It's weird, and I wish I could explain it better. (Or had the willpower or energy to.) But it generally boils down to: are you willing to accept whatever God throws at you?

Disagree with Paddy on contraception though, with the exception of the "Morning After" pill as that is essentially Abortion too.

You might need an update about how ordinary hormone contraception works, like this one here. Have to exclude the pill too, according to your definition.

Correct. If life begins at conception, the pill is a potential abortifacient. That is why many Christians - Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant - oppose the pill.

Legally speaking, though, life begins at implantation in the womb. So that is why contraceptives are not technicallyabortifacients.

We (no I in a team, right?) would start preparing for having a kid. We had a "flat tire" situation once and never even thought of using a day-after. Oh god, what am I doing, discussing such a private matter with a total strangers, on an ero-game forum.

That would be an abortion.

It made me sad when I realised that we're not gonna discuss anything here. All can be done is shouting our thruths to each other, while standing on a rock-hard shore of our own beliefs. Let's not. My beliefs might not be as unshakable as some people like to think about theirs, but still I'm standing by my lukewarm, nonextremist ideas (i'm of the ones that will be spit out, I guess).

I think we're making progress, to be honest. I've seen firefights in my time. This is nothing. This is a rational, civilized discussion, in comparison to some of the crap I've had to put up with.

You guys are very civil.

What is is with this forum and its strange power to evoke life stories out of people.

I haven't got even a clue to the idea, why the fuck it is happening on this forum again, and again (pardon my french, it's for the much needed emphasis).

Whatever the reason, it's amazing. It's like witnessing the sun rise from the summit of a very tall mountain.

[NoOne3]

Actually, now that you mention it, NFP is useful both for spacing children and helping infertility, too.

What I actually meant is, it's a promoted method, learned on pre-marital courses (compulsory course in case of church wedding), while it's still basically showing whatever God you trust, that you don't want to have a kid right now. It's result is the same (as rubber) just with different probability distribution.
Not mentioning it is plainly a hazard based game.

[Tomate]

Correct. If life begins at conception, the pill is a potential abortifacient. That is why many Christians - Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant - oppose the pill.

Legally speaking, though, life begins at implantation in the womb. So that is why contraceptives are not technicallyabortifacients.

Scientifically speaking that life its not aware that its alive, consciousness will only kick in after 25 weeks or so.

Lots of religions are against Abortion or contraception, If you want to follow the doctrines of some Jew guy who got nailed to a cross for suggesting that we should be nice to each other, its ok, go ahead. But trying to ban things because your holy book or your Pope/Patriarch/old-dude-with-a-awesome-hat said its sinful its a dickish thing. If you dont like, dont do it.

So why is condom forbidden and NFP approved? If your Sperm dies on a rubber cilinder its MURDER, "thy seed soiled ye olde ground and god is unhappy", but if your sperm dies on a dark place looking for a inexistent egg "its ok, at least they tried"? Kinda silly heh? What is the parameter?

[NoOne3]

So why is condom forbidden and NFP approved? If your Sperm dies on a rubber cilinder its MURDER, "thy seed soiled ye olde ground and god is unhappy", but if your sperm dies on a dark place looking for a inexistent egg "its ok, at least they tried"? Kinda silly heh? What is the parameter?

Did you noticed how you just said the same thing I did, in an unnecessary offensive manner? Chill man.

[Tomate]

Sometimes you have to be blunt.

[Paddy]

Honestly, this is something which I've not quite understood myself with all the lucidity I wish I could.

NFP is a subject tied to a big, big piece of Catholic theology on sexuality.

This article might help if you have the time.
http://www.americancatholic.org/Newslet ... ac0707.asp

I'm not sure if these are of any help, but here are some (hopefully) relevant excerpts from the article. (Of course, it makes more sense if you already accept the basic premise that God is real, and that Christianity is true, so it might not make much sense.)

...Christ directs us back to creation, and to God’s original intention for us. In the beginning, we learn that “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” (Gn 1:27)....

...when Adam’s gaze first falls on Eve, ...he sees someone else, equal in dignity and also made in the image of God. He also sees someone whose body is meant for union with his. “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh” (Gn 2:24).

This one-flesh union is tied to procreation when God tells Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply (Gn 1:28). So there are two purposes to sex, union and procreation, “established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break” (CCC, #2366). ...

...Our marriages can be a communion of persons, an image of the Holy Trinity [which is a communion of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit], when we become one flesh in a way that is open to life. In this way we are given the privilege of being co-creators with God of human life. This is why the Church considers sexual union to be holy....

We are called by the gospel to love as God loves. In figuring how God loves, we turn to the example of Jesus....[From Scripture we learn that Christ's] love is free, total, faithful and fruitful.

Natural Family Planning preserves all four of these characteristics. Sex using artificial contraception can never be total because it withholds fertility. Artificial contraception separates the unitive and the procreative meaning of intercourse in a way that Natural Family Planning never does, even when a couple is using it to avoid a pregnancy....

...As John Paul II wrote, marital chastity allows us to see the other as a gift and allows us a participation in the interior life of God himself, in his holiness.

To give of oneself is to act like Christ. And to act like Christ is to be truly human since this is the way God created us to be....

... does this help at all? ^^;

What I gather from it is that with artificial contraceptives, you're not giving your whole self to your wife, and this is below both your and her dignities. You deserve to have everything. NFP denies nothing. Even if the conditions are not exactly favourable to procreation, you are still offering your wife yourself wholly, and aren't afraid of accepting a "gift" she may have for you. You don't have to hide behind a pill or a condom; you are what you are, and she is what she is.

In other words, it's an act of brave, selfless, giving on both your parts, where you really reflect what it means to be human: to be made in the image and likeness of God.

No wonder it's such a wonderful feeling.

If you're still confused, don't worry. I'm probably as confused as you are.

EDIT: I'm not sure that I'm trying to ban contraceptives, or even abortion. But I dislike the thought of publicly funding their distribution, or any mention of them in our public schools funded with taxpayer money.
And even if I were to support banning it, it would be because it has a negative impact on society. Which I think it does (the words "demographic winter" come to mind).

I also think the way businesses like Planned Parenthood are waving pills and rubbers in front of the faces of teens like they're the solution to all their sexual and relationship problems is bestial and soulless of them.

It's one thing to offer a juicer or a powdered laundry detergent, which might only be a small waste of money and take up some space in your house sitting on a shelf or counter for years on end. It's quite another to give someone, not even yet old enough to drive, or at least smoke, a piece of rubber, which can be used to lead someone into a life-changing (or shattering) event. One is a slight inconvenience. The other is possibly twisting someone's life irreversibly.

[Snow_Storm]

Soo...how we came from taking about if Hisaoxmain girl mated to a debate on condoms and birth control pills and the Catholic Church.

[Paddy]

Soo...how we came from taking about if Hisaoxmain girl mated to a debate on condoms and birth control pills and the Catholic Church.

Apparently this is a more interesting topic.

Should we make a separate thread for it?

I personally hope that, whatever path was eventually took, however many children they have, contraception or abortion aside, that Hisao and his better half love and cherish the children they have, just as many of the parents on this forum, I'm sure, cherish theirs.