Just started KS... UPDATE: 100% Complete!

[geekahedron]

All told, the Emi "bad'" ending isn't all that horrible, rather benign really. There's a much greater disparity between her "good" ending and the "best" one, even though they both end up at the same place.

[Bigbishounen]

All told, the Emi "bad'" ending isn't all that horrible, rather benign really. There's a much greater disparity between her "good" ending and the "best" one, even though they both end up at the same place.

Agreed, although I would say that if you haven't gotten the best option ending yet, getting the bad ending is particularly painful, if only for the ugly sense of foreboding it brings on. You KNOW you F'ed it up, and that sinking feeling just gets worse as you go along.

Just finished the Rin good ending. Started it last night and ended up playing until 2:30AM, only got 1/2 way through before being too tired to continue. HOLY CRAP that is a long arc! Definitely the most confusing in terms of "ok, where will this choice lead me?" The flowchart was only minimally helpful, but I managed to pick my way through it. About the only story so far that has almost brought me to manly tears at the end. It was truly beautiful, if a bit disorienting. I think I'm going to sleep on it a bit to try and fully digest it before commenting further. As it is it's late here and I didn't sleep much last night. So I'm going to hit the hay.

[Snow_Storm]

Lisa's arc? Who the hell is Lisa?

She's the secret hidden character in Katawa Shoujo. To unlock her, you first must have unlock the Tommy Wisue route then beat the game on Hard Mode and get a bad ending.

[geekahedron]

The flowchart was only minimally helpful, but I managed to pick my way through it.

Out of curiosity, which flowchart were you looking at? How would you suggest making it easier to read through?

[Bigbishounen]

The flowchart was only minimally helpful, but I managed to pick my way through it.

Out of curiosity, which flowchart were you looking at? How would you suggest making it easier to read through?

Actually, I had two. Feuver's 2.9 version for all of Katawa Shoujo, which is my main one, and your own most recent Rin chart. When I would get confused I would just flip back and forth between them and sort of figure out which way I wanted to go.

Feuver's version seems a bit easier to read in that it's more of a "broad overview" look at it, but with Rin's path there is so much detail and so many confusing options that I also used your chart to sort of "fill in the details" and keep me oriented as to where I was in the overall flow of the story. I suppose you could say that Feuver's version is like a Google route map with just the highlighted route to go on, and your version is like turn by turn directions.

One thing that bothered me about your flowchart is the different colored arrows. They didn't seem to follow any pattern as far as what the colors were supposed to represent, they seemed just colored for the sake of coloring them. A color key would have helped, I think. Is it supposed to be, black arrows for main/good/netural storyline and red for bad ending? At first that's what I thought, but then the red arrow lines in Rin's flowchart turn black as they hit the bad ending. The cell colors were a bit confusing too, although the explanation box helped. I think you need to work out a unified color system for all the charts and then provide a color key on each one. Alternately, skip the colors as much as you can and just keep the arrows black and the boxes all one shade.

That said, your flowcharts are much prettier to look at than Feuvre's. You obviously put alot of work into them and it shows. Thanks for making them.

[Bigbishounen]

Lisa's arc? Who the hell is Lisa?

She's the secret hidden character in Katawa Shoujo. To unlock her, you first must have unlock the Tommy Wisue route then beat the game on Hard Mode and get a bad ending.

Lol!

Be nice guys. When I wrote that post I had all of 1 day into the game. (I never played the standalone "Act 1" release.) I hadn't memorized all the names yet! And I did fix it. I just hope poor Lilly forgives me for messing up her name. Glad she doesn't really have a "Bad" ending.

Actually, despite being a regular on 4chan (ok, mostly the /h boards. I'm a dirty, dirty old man.) I hadn't even heard of KS until it's release was announced on Slashdot! Go figure. And, as I mentioned in my first post, KS has really defied my expectations, and I'm glad of it. It's VERY rare that a VN or any kind of game gets me thinking like KS has, and despite being heavily distracted with other life issues, I've forced myself to make time for KS, because it's proven itself worth the effort.

Now if I can just keep everybody's NAME straight...

[geekahedron]

Actually, I had two. Feuver's 2.9 version for all of Katawa Shoujo, which is my main one, and your own most recent Rin chart. When I would get confused I would just flip back and forth between them and sort of figure out which way I wanted to go.

Feuver's version seems a bit easier to read in that it's more of a "broad overview" look at it, but with Rin's path there is so much detail and so many confusing options that I also used your chart to sort of "fill in the details" and keep me oriented as to where I was in the overall flow of the story. I suppose you could say that Feuver's version is like a Google route map with just the highlighted route to go on, and your version is like turn by turn directions.

Every other chart I've seen makes Rin's Act 2 look a heck of a lot more confusing than it already is. I suppose my biased opinion next to that of an objective third party should be taken as just that, though. I unraveled it the best I could using colors to pair up the decisions rather than a bunch of messy lines and extra text (other than the mini-legend, which was actually the last thing added). I'm definitely always open to suggestions how to make it clearer while preserving the information and ... uncluttered-ness?

One thing that bothered me about your flowchart is the different colored arrows. They didn't seem to follow any pattern as far as what the colors were supposed to represent, they seemed just colored for the sake of coloring them. A color key would have helped, I think. Is it supposed to be, black arrows for main/good/netural storyline and red for bad ending? At first that's what I thought, but then the red arrow lines in Rin's flowchart turn black as they hit the bad ending. The cell colors were a bit confusing too, although the explanation box helped. I think you need to work out a unified color system for all the charts and then provide a color key on each one. Alternately, skip the colors as much as you can and just keep the arrows black and the boxes all one shade.

That said, your flowcharts are much prettier to look at than Feuvre's. You obviously put alot of work into them and it shows. Thanks for making them.

Well, the arrows are colored because that's how you can tell where you're going; it's the whole method of navigation in lieu of extra arrows, diverging paths, or variable flags. To that end, yes, they're colored for the sake of being able to tell them apart, with varying significance to the actual colors used. For the other girls, I used red to mean "bad," but in Act 1 and in Rin's own chart, red is "Rin's color" and used as such. The yellow bad ending was just something eye-catching that wasn't red. The various other colors in the beginning are used to indicated the later choices they correspond to, and blue and green also stick out more on the palette than the other colors used. The first split in Rin's chart is irrelevant later, although in hindsight maybe a red path to "Rose-Colored Glasses" would be more appropriate if only in name, as well as possibly a better "Rin" scene than "BADAAN!" is.

The only other color change, which is purely aesthetic, is that the "normal" scenes in each chart progress from a faded version of the theme color to a bolder one in each act. Does that make it confusing? Black/gray would just seem rather drab.

I suppose that, if you're suggesting I make all the arrows black, a legend would be useful in describing that the different colored arrows serve a practical purpose other than just looking pretty or describing the "feel" of a given route. I've long planned to do another overhaul of the charts with a brief usage legend and more consistent colors, but hesitated at adding "unnecessary" text to the charts, and I simply haven't taken the time to or gotten the feedback to fuel the effort. This is probably just that.

Input like this is very much appreciated, and I'll probably recolor Rin's chart slightly this afternoon, at least. Thanks!

Anyway, back to the previous discussion...

[newnar]

The old flowchart works best for me. I forgot who made it but it's the v2.9 one.

[Althamus]

Hmmm.. You might have a point there. I'll admit I did both Emi "good" routes back to back and the "Let Misha Know" one was WAY rougher than the other one. Inside 1 minute I was saying "Bad move Hisao. Ouch!" I can't imagine how painful the actual bad ending will be. Ugh.

Of course, I could always take the "coward" way out and just pick the bad ending and put it on auto-skip. But something tells me I'd hate myself for chickening out. Argh.

Well, too much to do today to worry about good or bad endings. I can't afford to get emotionally tied to the game today so I'm taking the day off anyway. Today I take care of REAL katawa shoujo, my two daughters. The synthetic ones can wait.

Shizune's bad ending is the most brutal and emotionally painful bad ending out of all of them (as in, my opinion and it topped the poll as well), despite the fact that Shizune's route is generally seen as the weakest, and she's the girl I connected to least. Prepare yourself.

Also, does auto-skip work on text you haven't seen yet? I had the impression it didn't.

Also, Katawa Shoujo lit. Crippled Girl. Probably not polite to call your daughters that Particularly as it's seen as an insult in Japan.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Shizune's bad ending is the most brutal and emotionally painful bad ending out of all of them (as in, my opinion and it topped the poll as well), despite the fact that Shizune's route is generally seen as the weakest, and she's the girl I connected to least. Prepare yourself.

Also, does auto-skip work on text you haven't seen yet? I had the impression it didn't.

Also, Katawa Shoujo lit. Crippled Girl. Probably not polite to call your daughters that Particularly as it's seen as an insult in Japan.

I actually have to agree that Shizune's is the worst (best?) out of all the bad endings I've gotten so far (i.e. all save for Rin's), despite the rest of her route being relatively lackluster when compared to the more fast-paced ones. Actually, it probably ties with Hanako's bad ending - that was pretty brilliant, too. Anyway, yes, there is an option to have Skip Mode skip unread text - you can enable it under Options, though I have no idea why you'd want... alright, that's a lie, I completely understand why you'd want to, but you really shouldn't.

Obviously I'm neither Japanese, nor have I lived in Japan for any amount of time, but considering the fact that I've contemplated naming any daughters I might have in the far off future after the KS heroines, I can't wrap my gaijin brain around "Katawa Shoujo" being insulting in any way.

[Bigbishounen]

Shizune's bad ending is the most brutal and emotionally painful bad ending out of all of them (as in, my opinion and it topped the poll as well), despite the fact that Shizune's route is generally seen as the weakest, and she's the girl I connected to least. Prepare yourself.

Also, does auto-skip work on text you haven't seen yet? I had the impression it didn't.

Also, Katawa Shoujo lit. Crippled Girl. Probably not polite to call your daughters that Particularly as it's seen as an insult in Japan.

Yeah, Shizune's bad ending was a heartbreaker. That end portrait is just crushing if you have any emotional investment in the character at all. Emi's bad end is bad too, but not as bad if you've already run through the two "good" endings, since you are treading familiar ground. Just the final scene is slightly different.

I had intended to run through Rin's bad/neutral ends today as I had the day off work, but with 3 sick kids I had my hands full.

As far as Katawa being insulting, I guess it depends on how you look at it. The word "crippled" doesn't have nearly the negative connotation here in the U.S. that it does in Japan. In the U.S. the word is seen as merely archaic, rather than insulting. I suppose a more accurate translation that would reflect the way we use it here would be "Disabled" or if you want to go "full PC"; "Special Needs". Which both my daughters are. If you re-read my opening post, I mentioned that one of my daughters is ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) and the other is 4L Spina Bifida ("4L" meaning her Spinal cord stops at the 4th Lumbar vertebra.) I also have a son, who like one of my daughters is also ASD. That's why I took an interest in the game in the first place.

The thing about being the parent of multiple "special needs" kids is that you learn to be much less emotional about "PC" phrasing than most people. Simply because it is such a huge part of your life. You learn to realize that often the PC phrases that we use are as much for the benefit of the non disabled as it is for the disabled. People are trying to put a pretty face on an ugly problem. Its a way of hiding their discomfort behind a veil of pretty phrases and faux politeness. Let us be honest about issues that we have. ASD kids are (mostly) completely socially crippled and often learning disabled in ways that make it impossible for them to live even a remote semblance of a "normal" life. This is the stark reality of the situation. My youngest daughter with Spina Bifida is only 5 months old, but I have already come to grips with the fact that she may not walk as she has no muscle function below the ankles. She is and likely always will be physically crippled in her feet. It's the way it is. As Emi says in her story, "These things happen."

As a parent, when you discover that your child has ASD or Spina Bifida or any other crippling ailment, you grieve the loss of the child you thought you would have. Then you move through the grief, accept the reality of the situation, embrace the child you DO have and love them for all you are worth. After that point word definitions and PC phrasing no longer matter. They're just so much dust on the wind.

[Bigbishounen]

Ok, had a few quiet moments at work while I was running some automated jobs (yay for IT work!) and had the chance to run through the Rin Bad and Neutral endings.

Bad ending for Rin reminded me of the Emi bad ending. Short, explosive, to the point. Not really long enough in and of itself to really cause that much upset. Just BLAMMO! and then its over and you are left going; "Well damn. That sucked."

The Neutral ending... Oh my heart! That was WAY more painful! So many wrong answers from Hisao, so many times I expected him to just lean forward and embrace her and... Argh... How could he be so DENSE???

Urgh.. I think I need to go re-run through the good ending again just to wash that one out of my mind.

[Bigbishounen]

Just finished Hanako's good route this evening...

Ok, I'll admit I cried when Hanako and Hisao had their moment of truth. Had to kind of smother it, my wife was bustling about, and I didn't want to explain to her why I was all bleary-eyed and sniffling. (Holding a baby helps, I already get all mushy over my baby girl, so she's used to that.) But God that was so beautiful. I almost don't want to run through the other two endings for her, but as a completion-ist I'm kind of compelled to. I think I'll do them tomorrow if I'm up to a little heartbreak.

I can see why Hanako is so popular. Her story is just so tragic and touching all at once. And that ending? Just exactly "Hanako". Absolutely perfect.

Thanks 4LS. I'm going to sleep well tonight.

[Bigbishounen]

Ok, Finally got around to Finishing Lilly's route over the past weekend, thus closing out the last unfinished route in KS for me. I should note that for this route I decided to put the flowchart aside, and experience the story from the beginning as "blind" as I could. (No pun intended)

What a beautiful route. I can see why so many consider the Lilly route to be the "Canon" route for KS. Almost all of the other character routes are touched on here, at least marginally, and we see large parts of two other routes as the relationship between Shizune and Lilly is finally repaired and Hanako gets a "good end" for herself, no matter which ending Hisao gets.

I'm not sure I agree with some who have said that the Hanako story is actually better in the Lilly route than her own. it is certainly better than the Hanako bad ending, but I don't think it is as good as the Hanako good ending. Mostly because she still ends up without Hisao, even though she ends up strong and healthy even sooner in Lilly's route than she does her own.

I love how the Lilly story sets a tension point that even the reader doesn't recognize until Akira reveals it. Hisao notices that something is wrong fairly early on, and the aggressiveness that Lilly pursues Hisao with after his heart flutter and her subsequent love confession at the vacation cottage is certainly indicative of a change, but to the reader it just appears that she has a long unrequited love for Hisao that she is passionately expressing. As she herself says it's just a "healthy adolescent sex drive". The reader is led to believe that behind that refined facade is a VERY horny girl just barely restraining herself.

As an aside; I personally found the bathroom scene at the cottage particularly moving, largely because I once had a similar experience when I was around the same age as Hisao and Lilly. Reading that scene brought back fond memories of a deep claw-foot iron and porcelain tub, a hot steamy bath, my nubile young girlfriend, and an evening of passion in an old apartment I once lived in. The relationship didn't last, but we parted on good terms and will always have memories of that tub.

At any rate, back in KS it's not until the Akira talk that all the pieces finally click into place and we see Lilly's sexual aggressiveness as a desperate desire to connect with Hisao before she is forced to give him up forever to return to her family. Lilly is deeply conflicted about her perceived duties to a family that has up until now largely ignored her, and her love and devotion to Hisao. This inner turmoil is expressed through her nearly extreme sexual desire, up to the point that Hisao has another heart flutter just trying to keep up with her sexually. When the turmoil is finally revealed and Hisao confronts Lilly about her leaving his pain is palpable. Yet I found myself internally yelling at him to stop avoiding her and go be with her MORE in these last few days he has left with her. So much time was wasted by Hisao moping when they could be loving each other every spare minute until she has to go.

Then Lilly leaves, driving away with Akira as Hisao mournfully waves goodbye, standing by the front gates with Hanako. The sense of loss is profound. Then, in the good ending, Hisao makes the fateful decision to try one last time to stop Lilly. And during his desperate race to catch up with her before she leaves I found myself silently cheering him on, my own heart pounding in excitement and fear as he came so close to catching her, and then breaking as he collapsed on the sidewalk, blacking out and whispering her name as his heart failed him and his vision faded with the sight of her walking away. I found myself whispering; "No... Oh God, no.." (I got this end first, and thought that it was the "bad" ending at this point.)

The utter sense of loss when he awakes in the hospital, wondering at first if it was all a dream and then realizing that it all did happen is crushing beyond words. Then when he awakes, days later, to the sound of the music box and is reunited with Lilly you can't help but weep with joy for them. Hisao's efforts weren't for naught, fate has brought them back together as Lilly realized where her own heart truly was, with Hisao. She had reconciled with her family and now she was going to do everything she could to keep Hisao too. The epilogue was the absolutely perfect cap to their soaring romance as we see them both healthy, strong, and moving forward in life together. Hand in hand towards whatever the future may bring as the sun shines on a perfect day on a grassy hillside above Yamaku academy, the place where they first met and fell in love.

What a perfect ending to one of the best games I have EVER played. Words cannot express just how deeply affected I have been by this game as I played it over the last month and a half. Even as an otherwise mature adult of 40, I found that I have been changed by the experience in ways that I'm only beginning to understand.

I find myself working harder at my relationship with my wife, recognizing ways that I was acting like a "bad end" Hisao (Minus the drunken manly picnic, of course) when I knew I didn't need to be. I've been inspired by Emi to take up exercise again and have made it a personal goal to be back in "fighting shape" before the end of the year. Shizune has transformed into my personal conscience and avatar of responsibility in my life. Rin brought me back into touch with my old Artistic side (I was a music and art major in HS) and forced me to think about who I have become as I've lived my life and made the choices I did. Hanako has given me an example to teach my own kids, particularly my 5 month old who has Spina Bifida, that just because they are different doesn't make them any less valuable than anyone else, and never to let anyone treat them as "broken". Lilly reminded me of the value of seeing things from someone elses perspective and to love those close to me as passionately and as deeply as I can for as long as I have them, for you never know how long that is. I can honestly say that I am a better person for having played this game.

Thank you 4LS. From the bottom of my heart.

[Althamus]

What a perfect ending to one of the best games I have EVER played. Words cannot express just how deeply affected I have been by this game as I played it over the last month and a half.

You know it must have been a good game, because just reading your spoiler describing Lilly's route gave me the feels and made me cry all over again.