Just finished Hanako's route, and well...

[fcd15]

It has nothing to do with white knight syndrome or whatever. It just felt too awkward. They didn't understand each other until the end, there wasn't a single moment where they felt as comfortable as Hisao did with any other girls. Some may like this kind of difficult relationship but it was painful all the way to the end. It tied with Emi's for me because of its intensity, but it's definitely nothing I'll keep as a fond memory brought to me by KS.

[russianspy1234]

it might also be jelousy / white knight syndrome. people are thinking "what?!? how could hisao do that? i would never take advantage of sweet hanako in that way!

in which case, they've probably missed the point of the route altogether.

yeah ive noticed a lot of people that have missed the point of her route alltogether.

It has nothing to do with white knight syndrome or whatever. It just felt too awkward. They didn't understand each other until the end, there wasn't a single moment where they felt as comfortable as Hisao did with any other girls. Some may like this kind of difficult relationship but it was painful all the way to the end. It tied with Emi's for me because of its intensity, but it's definitely nothing I'll keep as a fond memory brought to me by KS.

just saying it might have been that for some people. i found rin's route to be far more uncomfortable.

[Guest]

It would take an entire series of KS sequels, I think, for Hanako and Hisao to have the kind of comfortable relationship as he did, say, with Lilly. It's a journey for both of them and it can't end in a matter of a few months - it would probably take years and a lot of bumps along the way. I'd actually have been hella disappointed if it ended in a stereotypical "happily ever after", because if anything it'd just brush the issues brought up in the route all under the carpet in a "THERE, FIXED NOW!" sort of way. Trauma and (possible? It's not confirmed in her route but a lot of Hanako's behaviour points to it) PTSD doesn't work that way and KS is aiming for as close to slice-of-life as possible. However, the ending scene of Hanako's route shows you just how far she's come, and it's heartwarming in its own way.

I'm glad that KS isn't a stereotypically romantic visual novel and is actually closer to slice-of-life - it helped me relate to the characters a little better. VNs like this are quite rare and hard to come by.

[zanzarra]

Wasn't the description in the chapter selection menu for the ending something about two teenage lovers becoming adults? This sums it up pretty well.

[UncleJellyfish]

Observation: People are way too quick to use the R-word.

I would say more about the whole matter, but themocaw said it better than I ever could.

I regretfully agree with this statement. Reading back, it wasn't actually "rape" that I was going for, but with other's using the word, it seemed to fit better than the word I couldn't think of to explain the thought I had (Rin♥). Say that, instead of "rape," I said "sex for the wrong reasons."

[quellsnarg]

But we don't give a shit about that, because, honestly, loving and consensual sex is kinda boring to watch if you're not one of the people participating in it.

I could not disagree with that particular statement any harder than I do right now. I'm not interested in watching sex scenes where people are hurt unless it is 100% consensual, planned, and there is loads of communication throughout. That might be boring to you, but it's a huge turn-off to me both emotionally and sexually if there is no communication when somebody is in pain: in media, in straight-up porn, and in real life. I wanted to get that out of the way before talking about something else...

I mean, compare it to the Emi anal scene. Both are really awkward sex scenes involving something that seemed like a good idea at the time but quickly devolved into something that neither party really, in the end, enjoyed. . . but the Emi scene is played for laughs, while the Hanako scene seems to get everyone up in arms. WTF.

Did you ever think there was a reason why? There are quite a few differences between the Emi and Hanako scene.

Spoilers for all routes below (most minor):

The major difference between Hanako's route and everybody else's is that all the other girls literally, verbally asked for sexual contact at one point or another during the route (well, except Shizune of course, but she made it blatantly obvious that she wanted it in both cases.) That's a really important thing to me. I would never do something without asking my partner first, man or woman, because I don't want to hurt them or make them uncomfortable, obviously. That is honestly the main problem I had with that scene. Hisao never asked, he only assumed, and it was a weak assumption if you look at what Hanako was doing preceding that scene.

Another big difference is that Emi and Hisao were in an established relationship when the anal scene happened and seemed relatively comfortable with each other (up to a point, I suppose), and Hanako and Hisao were just friends when their scene happened and didn't really get each other. Again, Emi asked. Hisao just kissed Hanako without asking and continued on without asking verbally, even though she looks extremely uncomfortable and is in pain later. Also, when Emi looks uncomfortable, Hisao touches her in other places so she can get some sort of pleasure... the best he does for Hanako is change position so she isn't in as much pain, and even that fails.

The last thing that I think is very important to remember is how the scenes were written. Hanako's scene was actually written as an emotional moment, whereas Emi's was, you now, written as a joke, like you said. Of course people are going to treat them differently when they are written in different styles and treated differently in the plot. There are little details too that made me think of the scene the way I did originally but I'm not going to bother listing them now because there are a ton and it's a futile exercise.

In retrospect, I understand that my initial assumptions were incorrect from a canon standpoint, but I don't think that invalidates the anger and disgust (yes, my emotions were that strong, and I was angry at both of them, not just Hisao) I felt after I read the scene and its aftermath for the first time without any influence. The devs said they meant to write it ambiguously up until the ending, but even at the ending it still seemed extremely ambiguous due to Hanako's exact wording... to say you'll "let" somebody have sex with you doesn't really seem like you want to participate in the act. It's a very passive word.

I think it's funny that everybody thinks that this route was so "honest" when a lot of what I saw were lies and large omissions, both on Hanako and Hisao's part up until the catharsis scene (which came way too quickly narratively, imo)... but that could be me being bitter.

I understand why you feel the way you do about the scene but I don't think that it's completely inoffensive. Feel free to feel the way you do and please let me feel the way I do; I've reflected a ton on why I feel the way I do about the scene so it's not just a gut reaction anymore, and my opinion has softened since I first played (I no longer think it's rape but I still think it's very sketchy and could be much less ambiguous). The ending still makes me super-uncomfortable (yes, I mean the final CG) and I don't think I'll ever be completely comfortable with it... I don't like jumping into relationships with people I don't understand because to me it seems like a recipe for failure and it makes me sad when other people do it. Please don't call my opinion invalid because I have reasons for feeling the way I do, and I won't call yours invalid in turn, because it's not an invalid opinion. You have some good points, in fact, like sex not always being perfect and that they both regretted having sex. It doesn't change my opinion that the whole situation could have been handled in a way that made the act seem more consensual after the fact or less painful during the act, though, because it really squicked me out and almost made me not want to finish any of the other routes.

[Oli]

Am I the only one that liked the Hanako's sex scene? I thought it was beautiful.

I hope to know someone like Hanako in real life. I felt in love with her.

[UncleJellyfish]

Am I the only one that liked the Hanako's sex scene? I thought it was beautiful.

I hope to know someone like Hanako in real life. I felt in love with her.

You're not the only one. Though her sex scene was painful in regards to how it turned out, I did rather enjoy it because of the emotional effect that it had. It added another layer to the conflict between them, ultimately helping the build-up to the final "tearing down of the wall" scene.