Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Mirage_GSM »

Nekken wrote:The issue isn't so much a matter of content (though that doesn't help matters) as of rights: it goes through so many legal gray areas that untangling them would be nightmarish. There's even a (very thin) argument that Disney might have some kind of claim on it, based on the chain of technical copyright violations, and if by some ludicrous chance that ever stood up in court, Disney would bury this thing deeper than Song of the South.
You have me curious...
How do you get the idea that anyone but 4LS could claim the rights to KS? (Not that they'd give a license to make this an anime.)
They wrote the story, created the art, composed the music and had the pictures taken themselves (not sure if the photographer is a member of the dev team).
The only one who could possibly have a claim to the rights on KS would be Raita (though the devs said this had been checked and found a non-issue), but the idea of a japanese doujin artist suing for copyright violations is ludicrous at best.
I don't even have an idea how Disney would come into the picture^^°
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.
INFERTakuya
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by INFERTakuya »

In terms of content, I believe it would make a fairly good anime (if the H-scenes are cut). I can visualize Hisao running after Lilly, then succumbing to his heart attack and collapsing on the ground. Though in my mind, he just screams her name once, faltering at the end, before collapsing and weakly uttering her name before blacking out, instead of repeating her name over and over.
Endings Obtained

Emi: Bad End|Second Chance|Good End
Hanako: Bad End|Neutral End|Good End
Lilly: Bad End|Good End
Shizune: -In Progress-
Rin:
Nekken

Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Nekken »

Mirage_GSM wrote:
Nekken wrote:The issue isn't so much a matter of content (though that doesn't help matters) as of rights: it goes through so many legal gray areas that untangling them would be nightmarish. There's even a (very thin) argument that Disney might have some kind of claim on it, based on the chain of technical copyright violations, and if by some ludicrous chance that ever stood up in court, Disney would bury this thing deeper than Song of the South.
You have me curious...
How do you get the idea that anyone but 4LS could claim the rights to KS? (Not that they'd give a license to make this an anime.)
They wrote the story, created the art, composed the music and had the pictures taken themselves (not sure if the photographer is a member of the dev team).
The only one who could possibly have a claim to the rights on KS would be Raita (though the devs said this had been checked and found a non-issue), but the idea of a japanese doujin artist suing for copyright violations is ludicrous at best.
I don't even have an idea how Disney would come into the picture^^°
It's the chain of technical copyright violations. The game was inspired by a sketch by RAITA, who included it in one of his doujinshi. I don't think RAITA would sue, but the company who made the work he made the doujin from could try to claim the doujin, and through it the sketch, and through <i>that</i> the game. That means Ghibli, because the sketch appeared in a Nausicaa doujin, and Disney owns Ghibli.

Note that I already said the odds were ludicrous. I don't think this is likely to actually happen, at least not out of the blue: Disney isn't going to want to be associated with this unless it has to. But if anyone else tries to make an anime out of it, the chances go up, and the anime producers won't want to risk taking on Disney in court.

This said, I'm now thinking someone needs to make a fanart of Kenji explaining the whole situation.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Mirage_GSM »

...but the company who made the work he made the doujin from could try to claim the doujin, and through it the sketch...
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think copyright works that way :lol:
While the company might try to sue (with limited chances of success) for cessation of distribution of the doujin, they certainly couldn't gain ownership of it and certainly not of another work that just happened to be published together with it.
Even if KS were to make billions of profit, neither Ghibli nor Disney would see a single cent of it.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
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Merlyn_LeRoy
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Merlyn_LeRoy »

Mirage_GSM wrote:
...but the company who made the work he made the doujin from could try to claim the doujin, and through it the sketch...
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think copyright works that way :lol:
While the company might try to sue (with limited chances of success) for cessation of distribution of the doujin, they certainly couldn't gain ownership of it and certainly not of another work that just happened to be published together with it.
Even if KS were to make billions of profit, neither Ghibli nor Disney would see a single cent of it.
Ah, but what if Disney demanded that Raita hand over all rights connected with the doujin? Before you know it, Mickey Mouse owns Nicol Armarfi's piano.
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Rolanberry
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Rolanberry »

Rivan wrote:I am assuming we are only talking about the overall atmosphere and possibility of conversion theoretically rather than thinking about how much it would cost or how difficult it'd be to assemble a team to do it.

The answer is : Somewhat possible, but very problematic.

First of all, Hisao only has a limited amount of time to spend and yet, the anime would have to show more aspects of it than the visual novel did, which would sometimes have the possiblity of boring the viewer to death. Of course, overall, it'd still be interesting as a whole, just not as hooking as the game was.

Second of all, I share the feeling that it would lose a substantial amount of depth if just changed into an anime about a guy at school for the disabled.

Thrid of all... The route. Technically, none of the girls have more right to become the main love interest than the other. Rin can play the mysterious and aloof girl that he somehow falls in love with, Hanako is (initially, at least) White Knight Syndrome incarnate, Lilly is a perfect example of going from friends to lovers, while Shizune and Mischa would make a perfect dynamic for "I don't know which I prefer" kind of anime. Emi also has some claim to Hisao based entirely on the fact that she cares about his health.

Last but not least, some paths portray same events in vastly different ways so it would be rather hard to be fair to everyone without modyfying them.
Sorry, edited a bit of the quote for space. But this points out alot of good points about the conversion of things to different mediums.

I really agree that the game could be made into a Anime, but it needs to be thought of in a very different way then how the game itself is made due to the inherit differences in the two mediums. For sake of simplicity lets just say that from the get go budget is no issue and top notch voice actors have already been chosen so we can go right into post-production.

The first thing to realize is that you can't make a 1:1 conversion of the game to anime. The best example is why movies based on games are often terrible and same for games based off movies, how we experience the mediums though similar...are very different. In a game format you have unlimited time. The maker can give you a 40 hour long story that builds, slows, goes through tons of transitions and even has a good amount of welcomed fluff that would be called out as terrible in other mediums such as movies or anime. A Anime's timing is going to be much tighter, and in 24/30 min bites. Points are going to need to be made faster or in different ways.

Also, the format of a VN is rather different in every way from a anime. The first person perspective and Hisao's inner monologs would be cut (or at the least the inner monologs would be VERY condensed.) The much deeper connection the VN makes you with Hisao would now be gone in favor of pure characterization of Hisao. Thats not a good or bad thing its just different. Like I said in my point about the timing, while with a game to express Hisao's inner conflicts might be a very long inner monolog an anime might show his face with a particular look on his face for a brief second to get this point across.

On that point there are things the Anime can do much better and show off that the VN can't. A quick example is Misha. Misah's loud and boisterous and is constantly signing anything and everything someone says. She delivers a obviously snide remark from Shizune with the opposite tone meant for it. A anime can bring that to life in a much more amazing and (pardon the term) animated fashion then the VN.

I'd go on more but this is already very long!

TL;DR: The mediums are different and have to be approached differently for max effect. Attempting a 1:1 conversion won't work.
scoopnokes
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by scoopnokes »

could someone fill me in on teh disney and Ghibli thing? How's that relate to KS? Besides that point, if the art from KS was taken from somewhere, the production of KS took 5 years. It was 5 years that the development of KS has been public and the artwork for the game has been open since then. Would the prescriptive easement not be applied here for the fact, if the artwork belonged to someone else, that the original owner of the pieces should have known this was being used and therefore had the right to stop the use of the work. However, since the person did now but knew it was being produced then they cannot really do anything about it.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Mirage_GSM »

scoopnokes wrote:could someone fill me in on teh disney and Ghibli thing? How's that relate to KS?
There doesn't seem to be any more to it than Nekken wrote in his above post. Still not sure if he's serious about the connection or joking.
KS is based on a sketch that was apparently first published in a Nausicae doujin.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.
scoopnokes
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by scoopnokes »

Mirage_GSM wrote:
scoopnokes wrote:could someone fill me in on teh disney and Ghibli thing? How's that relate to KS?
There doesn't seem to be any more to it than Nekken wrote in his above post. Still not sure if he's serious about the connection or joking.
KS is based on a sketch that was apparently first published in a Nausicae doujin.
alright thanks, but still that would bring up the prescriptive easement
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Mirage_GSM »

Not really... Wouldn't even go that far probably.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.
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Rolanberry
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Rolanberry »

Nekken wrote:
Mirage_GSM wrote:
Nekken wrote:The issue isn't so much a matter of content (though that doesn't help matters) as of rights: it goes through so many legal gray areas that untangling them would be nightmarish. There's even a (very thin) argument that Disney might have some kind of claim on it, based on the chain of technical copyright violations, and if by some ludicrous chance that ever stood up in court, Disney would bury this thing deeper than Song of the South.
You have me curious...
How do you get the idea that anyone but 4LS could claim the rights to KS? (Not that they'd give a license to make this an anime.)
They wrote the story, created the art, composed the music and had the pictures taken themselves (not sure if the photographer is a member of the dev team).
The only one who could possibly have a claim to the rights on KS would be Raita (though the devs said this had been checked and found a non-issue), but the idea of a japanese doujin artist suing for copyright violations is ludicrous at best.
I don't even have an idea how Disney would come into the picture^^°
It's the chain of technical copyright violations. The game was inspired by a sketch by RAITA, who included it in one of his doujinshi. I don't think RAITA would sue, but the company who made the work he made the doujin from could try to claim the doujin, and through it the sketch, and through <i>that</i> the game. That means Ghibli, because the sketch appeared in a Nausicaa doujin, and Disney owns Ghibli.

Note that I already said the odds were ludicrous. I don't think this is likely to actually happen, at least not out of the blue: Disney isn't going to want to be associated with this unless it has to. But if anyone else tries to make an anime out of it, the chances go up, and the anime producers won't want to risk taking on Disney in court.

This said, I'm now thinking someone needs to make a fanart of Kenji explaining the whole situation.
This had me really curious too. But I actually have the luxury of working for Disney so I went down to ask a person in legal. I used the example of an artist I do know who has had art appear in Disney brand books and questioned what would happen if he took one of the works from those art books and wanted to make a kids show. Oddly it seems this isn't the first time this has been asked or the first time it has happened!

The information I got actually isn't so much discouraging as it includes some paper work on some peoples part. That in fact the sketch being submitted into a doujin (and if appearing in any art book for that matter) does make it technically property of Disney and could cause problems if a person was seeking to make a profit off of it other then Disney.

If the person who created the work pitched the idea to make something from it for profit and Disney turns them down, that person can take the idea to another company as long as they use something like a IP lawyer to retain the rights to that work. This is also of course if the art was MADE on this persons own time and on there own material. What that means is if the sketch was made FOR the Nausicae doujin while the artist was being employed by Ghibli then it is owned by Ghibli/Disney making retaining legal rights for it much much harder.

But if the final work is different enough from the sketch it shouldn't be that hard.
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Barkley »

Although I doubt there could be voice acting,an anime is not out of question.
A couple of buddies could make a pretty good looking one without voice acting,only sounds and probably some music,you know,like the Touhou C80 release.
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Mirage_GSM »

Rolanberry wrote:I used the example of an artist I do know who has had art appear in Disney brand books and questioned what would happen if he took one of the works from those art books and wanted to make a kids show. ...

... That in fact the sketch being submitted into a doujin (and if appearing in any art book for that matter) does make it technically property of Disney...
Not the same situation. In your example the sketch was published in a publication by Disney. That means that he probably signed an agreement that allowed Disney to publish his work and relinquished the rights to Disney. (At least I suppose Disney would not publish his work without his agreement.
Raita published his sketch in a Doujinshi (tl:dr = Fanwork).
While that Fanwork apparently was about Nausicae, it was self-published without any involvement of either Ghibli or Disney.
So while Ghibli theoretically owns Nausicae and could on that grounds try to stop the publication of the doujin, they would not own any piece of art that was incidentally published along with it.
Japanese companies are generally a lot less strict about such things than western ones. They see doujins as gratis advertisements for their products and not as theft of intellectual property.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.
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Rolanberry
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Rolanberry »

Mirage_GSM wrote:
Rolanberry wrote:I used the example of an artist I do know who has had art appear in Disney brand books and questioned what would happen if he took one of the works from those art books and wanted to make a kids show. ...

... That in fact the sketch being submitted into a doujin (and if appearing in any art book for that matter) does make it technically property of Disney...
Not the same situation. In your example the sketch was published in a publication by Disney. That means that he probably signed an agreement that allowed Disney to publish his work and relinquished the rights to Disney. (At least I suppose Disney would not publish his work without his agreement.
Raita published his sketch in a Doujinshi (tl:dr = Fanwork).
While that Fanwork apparently was about Nausicae, it was self-published without any involvement of either Ghibli or Disney.
So while Ghibli theoretically owns Nausicae and could on that grounds try to stop the publication of the doujin, they would not own any piece of art that was incidentally published along with it.
Japanese companies are generally a lot less strict about such things than western ones. They see doujins as gratis advertisements for their products and not as theft of intellectual property.
In this sort of case then it is a complete fan work. No legal action would be able to be taken by any of the big companies in that sort of matter and even if tried it be difficult and I can say with certainty Disney wouldn't care.

Sounds like one step closer to an anime getting made!
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Mirage_GSM
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Re: Could Katawa Shoujo ever be an anime?

Post by Mirage_GSM »

Well, the real obstacle is that those who DO have the rights to KS - 4LS - don't want an anime to be made, so the point is moot anyway.
Emi > Misha > Hanako > Lilly > Rin > Shizune

My collected KS-Fan Fictions: Mirage's Myths
griffon8 wrote:Kosher, just because sex is your answer to everything doesn't mean that sex is the answer to everything.
Sore wa himitsu desu.
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