Developments (Post-Lilly NE) [Complete, 2015-08-11]

[StealthyWolf]

I've necro'd older forums already, so I don't feel bad at all for this one because hot DAMN did I enjoy this story. Easily fights for a position in my top 3 which I think now consists of A Pseudo-Pseudo Suzu Route, Learning to Fly, and Developments; though it's a close battle between Developments and Sisterhood. Before I really get started I just want to make one thing clear. I loved this read from beginning to end to matter what my rambles lead me to say.

Now, where to begin... I guess I'll just see where my hands take me cause this was a wild Journey. First off, this story came out swinging and hooked me in the first few chapters. Despite knowing exactly what I was getting into, my heart still pulled for some sort of make-up scene to happen between Lilly and Hisao at the start. Again, I fully recognized that it was a Post Lilly Neutral End story and none of the events were going to change, but damn, the way you wrote those scenes still had me hoping (more on this note later). Then Emi was introduced as a MC and a whole new host of possibilities started to open. First, it makes sense he's find comfort in a new set of friends during that last week before Lilly leaves. It was either that or spend time with Hanako which would be awkward considering the events going on around them at the time. I guess there was the third option of him holing himself up, which while I can see would lead to a very different Hisao and story to follow. Then Emi declares she's going for a second chance at a relationship with Hisao and my mind was filled to the brim with the possibilities.

Emi's route was the first route I played so her character has always held a special place in my heart. I've always found her attitude, decisions, and story intriguing and when you introduced her as a primary character for this story I was definitely ready to see more of her. That being said Hanako is probably my favorite character so the possibility of her and Hisao being together had me just as excited. The main reason I was excited for either character from the get go was due to the sheer quality in the way the story was written. The characters felt realized and intricate in a way some stories lack.

I'm generally very lax when it comes to being harsh/critical so most of the media I interact with tends to end up filed as "Good," "Really Good," "Great," or "Excellent." If they don't end up in those categories they have failed on some front drastically. I can confidentially say that this piece ends up in the Excellent category.

Part of the reason it does is the wide range of emotions this story brought out as I was reading. During the first ~30 to 40 chapters I remember MANY instance of saying to myself, "Oh fuck!" at a new... development.... in the story. Things like Lilly declaring she was returning, Hanako's confession, Emi and Hanako's developing rivalry and decisions, Hisao's idiocy, etc. I frequently would read something and be legitimately excited to continue, or exasperated at the character's decisions, or in shock at what the coming events could mean for the characters. Not many things draw out as many vivid emotions as this one in that way, for me at least. I started out the story pulling for Hanako abut every time either Emi OR Lilly were "on screen" I'd be rooting for them just as much, reading all the speculation and debates throughout was really fun. At first I felt like you were digging a hole for the story because both Emi and Hanako had SO much to lose in the race for Hisao that it felt like him choosing either one would be absolutely devastating, but I still had the urge to continue.

This is without even getting into the character development on every front. From any of the MC's to Noriko it was a a joy to read. A lot of the specifics I could add have already been said and I'm sure I have and will repeat more, so I'll just say one thing her and now. It was marvelous to read and watch. Sometimes when an interestingly written scene/interaction/event happens in a story I get a burst of creative energy and want to work on my own writing. I had that happen almost EVERY time I read more of this story over the past ~10 days. Every time a new issue is brought up, addressed, and resolved I get inspired to think about how the characters might deal with their own situations in my works. I start thinking about what other issues they could be facing. I get ideas for scenes and plot point. I get inspired to write. I hope I can craft something as gripping as this one, though I believe that will be a difficult task.

All that being said, was this perfect? No. It was still a very flawed piece (Then again so are my other 3 contenders for top 3, but still). I mentioned earlier the wide array of emotions felt in the first 2/3's of the story. However I think they were SO wide and SO active that it drained me as I got closer and closer to the end. When it started becoming clear that the race was over and Emi was the clear victor I remember a feeling of "so what now?" Then when that answer became clear, I remember thinking "This has REALLY slowed down." A bad thing? Not necessarily, but for me it did start to drag. As other's have mentioned I believe part of this was the spree of frequent "overlapping" scenes, especially in back to back chapters. It began to feel like staring a new chapter was always guaranteed to include the compromise of "taking a step backwards" in the story before getting to new progression. This was good when it came to character development, but the pacing was very difficult to parse. Perhaps it was different for the people reading it as it came out, but reading it as one big peace definitely exasperated the issue for me.

Then came some character decisions and outbursts that left me feeling.... nothing? It's hard to explain it so I'm just gonna talk about some examples. The biggest one for me was Hanako's outburst at Hisao, then even more so at Lilly. There was something about these scenes that didn't exactly sit right with me. I felt the buildup to them was rather successful, all up until the last step before they actually happened. I think maybe it's connected to that emotional drainage I was talking about which was only intensified by the overlapping issue. I guess part of me felt like the scenes might have been too slow.

Hmm it's occurring to me that it's hard to really place my feelings into words this far detached from reading the exact scenes. I did warn that this was going to be a bit more rambley though. I think what I'm getting at is that the writing was great, the execution of presentation of the scenes was great, and in vacuums each and every chapter was amazing. However, whenever I'd reach a certain point in a chapter, I got the feeling that I was going to be re-reading that very same scene again soon, so the rest of the chapter started to feel a little... in the way? Then re-reading the scene in the next POV felt much the same way until the plot progressed. The first few times this happened was fine, but when it happened numerous times back to back all at once in what was probably the most dramatic parts of the story, it started to drain me. Without the invigorating tension of the earlier chapters to re-energize me I found myself more frequently taking breaks from the story to do something else. Do I think the story should've ended after he chose Emi? Not at all. In fact I think it is all the better for following through with showing the fall-out of the previous 40-50 chapters+VN. Hanako was making so many heart-breaking bad decisions, Lilly was put thrown into a shark tank of difficult times, Hisao... was Hisao, and Emi had all of her own issues to confront, and when it was time for them to become the main story, the story succeeded in confronting them. For that, I applaud you. I just wish it were less taxing while reading.

I think another part of the issue is related to something else that was brought up in the thread at one point. The chapters started to feel very formulaic around this time. "Character A and B talk. Then A and C. then A and D. Then A and B again." Then the next chapter starts and its from Character B's perspective of that same conversation. Then they go on their own spree of conversations with other individuals. Not to mention most character's moods around this time were largely similar. They were all in pretty low places with very few chapters that were widely uplifting rather than depressing. It made for an experience that felt, again, draining in many ways. I'm not saying we needed more "sunshine and rainbows" in the middle of all the fitting doom and gloom that was happening at the time, but someone less deeply connected to everything being present would've done wonders. In the beginning that was Emi to Hisao's depression and Hanako's conflict. Then it was Hanako to Emi's inner turmoil. Then it was Noriko and Yoshi to everyone's battles. But at some point, when the tension of the race was gone and the characters all had their own issues to face, it felt like there was no getting out of the rut. Until it finally did in the form of Emi and Hisao finally getting to the other side of starting their relationship.

To help get across what I think was happening here I'll compare it to another character drama I really love. Re:Zero. Re:Zero is a character drama through and through in my opinion. Now, specifically I want to look at the episode "From Zero." The ENTIRE episode is just two of the main characters talking about their feelings and it is one of THE best episodes in Anime I've ever watched, and it works well. I think one of the differences between that episode and what happened in this story is that it felt like there were multitudes of these scenes back to back in the story while the show had surrounding episodes with plot happening. Entire chapters or so that felt like all that was going on was talking. I'm not saying we needed the characters to go on and fight a giant whale flying in the sky or something like that, but a little break from the conversations here and there go a long way I feel. and I think that's harder to achieve with only 2 characters interacting since they'll mostly be doing talking if it's just them. That all being said, it's also understandable it might go this way. The entire story takes place over the span of a few short weeks after all and sometimes a single day would span multiple chapters, so it makes sense WHY it happened like that, I just wish there was something to help break it up. Even a little.

I think I've probably started repeating myself enough when it comes to that so back to some of the good. I loved Noriko and her story. She was a welcome addition to the story and is probably a fair example of exactly what my previous point was talking about. An outsider. I don't think she specifically needed a larger presence in the story and in fact that probably would've hurt her more than it would've helped the story. Which is why she worked. She had a place in the story and fulfilled it greatly. She dragged the characters out of their zones at just right moments (mostly) to help move the story forward. All the while going on her own journey.

Which unfortunately beings me to another of the issues I had as I read. Hisao's journey. It felt like his arc didn't even really begin until nearly 40 to 50 chapters in. It's less of a distinctly bad point, as it plays into exactly what his arc was (overcoming being a leaf in the wind), but damn it felt a little harsh sometimes. He'd make no decisions, or just be a stand-in as the world around him moved forward. It definitely got better by the end, but it took time to get there, and the fact it only started some time AFTER the tension for the first 2/3's of the story had finally passed made the issue all that more apparent to me. Again, it's hard for me to exactly fault being as it was part of the point, but at the same time it felt like the issues were already moving towards being solved around him and decisions were coming to fruition long before he actively participated in them.

But I also really liked how so many HUGE expectations were set-up and played out realistically. Things like Noriko handing Hisao his number and him just leaving it on his desk while rumors float around about her, just to be played straight "What's this?" "Noriko's number." "Interesting. Ok moving on!" and it wasn't just small things like that, it was everything throughout the entire story. Big meetups that some might expect to be over-dramatic or play out like we've seen a thousand times before were instead approached maturely and with respect to the characters AND readers alike.

I also enjoyed how three dimensional most characters were throughout the entire read. The biggest standout that failed in this department for me was Shin. Other characters with appearances just as short as his felt farm more interesting, bro... But aside from him the other largely lackluster character for me was Iwanako. Her conversation felt very short and terse despite it kind of being the last "built up" conflict to resolve. It felt like the conversation was just getting started, then abruptly it went the way of "all right. Let's go back to Emi now." Maybe that's just my expectations going a bit wild, but the fact the conflict was introduced as a coming confrontation nearly 8 chapters earlier just to be a short conversation where no real resolution occurs was a little deflating. I'm not saying they needed to make-up or anything, but it felt like their standings in relation to each other barely changed at all. Just a bit of "So here we are now." and then they moved on. Which I guess can be a little fitting, but even Mai and Shin get a little more of progression in the sense of "There is more to what happened here." by the time they left the story. Iwanako just felt... present? I guess. If any of that makes any sense.

I know I kind of went off the deep end with some of those point but I want to bring it all back in now. This was an amazing read, written extraordinarily well, and was captivating from beginning to end despite any of it's shortcomings. While I find it very unlikely I would have latched onto Katawa Shoujo earlier in my life than when I did, it's stories like this one that make me wish I had still. To only be here so long after it's all said and done saddens me a little, but I'm still glad to have eventually found it all. If you ever happen to read this... long piece, Dewelar, I want to say thanks for all the inspiration you gave me and the amazing story. It was truly a fantastic read and I hope my long rants don't overshadow that fact. I aspire to be able to complete my own work with as much passion and quality as you.

[Silentfrost]

I have just finished reading this, and while it's fresh in my mind, I just wanted to say thank you. I loved it from start to finish.

Emis internal monologue on the track in chapter 59 genuinely made me cry, and the chapter from Rin's perspective captured Rins... Oddities fantastically. I really really enjoyed rins chapter.

There are only a few things I disliked about this story; mostly involving Misha oddly enough.

1) that Hanako did not mention anything about helping Misha during her appointment with miss yumi. This felt like it would have been a good opportunity for hanako to verbalise that she could be support for people rather than constantly being supported.

2) Misha didn't get a proper ending. She was tense with shizune, and then that's the last you really see of her. It felt like her story could have had a little more to it at the end. I realise this was partially resolved with the epilogue but that only really resolved matters from shizune's perspective.

3) Contrary to rins chapter, I'm not sure that you quite captured Mishas essence in her own chapter. I get that Misha is meant to come across as having the energy of a coked up squirrel, but I doubt her internal monologue is quite so annoying.

4) I really wish that hisao has stood up to his bitch of a mother when she compared emi to a dog. That really made my blood boil after everything emi did for hisao. I'd have gotten some real satisfaction from him saying that it wouldn't be necessary for her welcome emi back with open arms; he chooses the dog over her and hoped she enjoyed speaking to the daughter she's wished she always had.

[dewelar]

Wow...been two-plus years since this thread's been active...

*brushes off cobwebs*

Nevertheless, it's always great to see new folks finding and enjoying this story. So what have we got that's awakened the behemoth?

*looks at StealthyWolf's post*

Hm. Seems to be a behemoth all unto itself. Well, I'm game! Don't worry, Silentfrost, I'll get to you too down at the end of this post -- just... cracks knuckles ...gonna need a bit...

I've necro'd older forums already, so I don't feel bad at all for this one because hot DAMN did I enjoy this story. Easily fights for a position in my top 3 which I think now consists of A Pseudo-Pseudo Suzu Route, Learning to Fly, and Developments; though it's a close battle between Developments and Sisterhood.

Seven and a half years, and I never tire of getting placed in such august company.

Before I really get started I just want to make one thing clear. I loved this read from beginning to end to matter what my rambles lead me to say.

*bows* I am honored once more. I will start by saying thanks for the kind words, and also the not-so-kind ones, which are oftentimes the more useful ones. I'll mostly be responding to those

Emi's route was the first route I played so her character has always held a special place in my heart.

Same. I may relate to Rin the most, but that may also go some way toward explaining why I feel so attached to the other side of her dyad.

The characters felt realized and intricate in a way some stories lack.

I definitely appreciate hearing this.

During the first ~30 to 40 chapters I remember MANY instance of saying to myself, "Oh fuck!" at a new... development.... in the story.

*laughs*

Sometimes when an interestingly written scene/interaction/event happens in a story I get a burst of creative energy and want to work on my own writing. I had that happen almost EVERY time I read more of this story over the past ~10 days. Every time a new issue is brought up, addressed, and resolved I get inspired to think about how the characters might deal with their own situations in my works. I start thinking about what other issues they could be facing. I get ideas for scenes and plot point. I get inspired to write. I hope I can craft something as gripping as this one, though I believe that will be a difficult task.

Honestly, I could just stop here, because this is the highest praise I can receive. If I can inspire other works with my own, I feel like I've been validated all over again, so thank you.

All that being said, was this perfect? No. It was still a very flawed piece (Then again so are my other 3 contenders for top 3, but still).

*nods* Fair enough. I mean, if it wasn't flawed, I could just quit and never write anything again, right?

I mentioned earlier the wide array of emotions felt in the first 2/3's of the story. However I think they were SO wide and SO active that it drained me as I got closer and closer to the end.

Yeah, that's understandable. There's a LOT here, and spacing it out over a longer time frame probably allowed it to breathe in the process of being posted.

When it started becoming clear that the race was over and Emi was the clear victor I remember a feeling of "so what now?" Then when that answer became clear, I remember thinking "This has REALLY slowed down." A bad thing? Not necessarily, but for me it did start to drag.

Interesting. I suppose some of that might be because the chapters did get longer as the story went on -- the early chapters definitely had a quicker pace. I'll blame part of that on the fact that my writing style shifted over the two years during which I wrote this.

As other's have mentioned I believe part of this was the spree of frequent "overlapping" scenes, especially in back to back chapters. It began to feel like staring a new chapter was always guaranteed to include the compromise of "taking a step backwards" in the story before getting to new progression. This was good when it came to character development, but the pacing was very difficult to parse. Perhaps it was different for the people reading it as it came out, but reading it as one big peace definitely exasperated the issue for me.

*nods* Understandable. The style's not going to work for everyone.

Then came some character decisions and outbursts that left me feeling.... nothing? It's hard to explain it so I'm just gonna talk about some examples. The biggest one for me was Hanako's outburst at Hisao, then even more so at Lilly. There was something about these scenes that didn't exactly sit right with me. I felt the buildup to them was rather successful, all up until the last step before they actually happened. I think maybe it's connected to that emotional drainage I was talking about which was only intensified by the overlapping issue. I guess part of me felt like the scenes might have been too slow.

Very interesting. While writing, I felt somewhat the opposite of this, like the early chapters were too fast, without enough descriptions and internal monologue.

Do I think the story should've ended after he chose Emi? Not at all. In fact I think it is all the better for following through with showing the fall-out of the previous 40-50 chapters+VN. Hanako was making so many heart-breaking bad decisions, Lilly was put thrown into a shark tank of difficult times, Hisao... was Hisao, and Emi had all of her own issues to confront, and when it was time for them to become the main story, the story succeeded in confronting them. For that, I applaud you.

On the other hand, at least somebody liked this .

I just wish it were less taxing while reading.

...mostly.

I think another part of the issue is related to something else that was brought up in the thread at one point. The chapters started to feel very formulaic around this time.

At the time, I chalked this up to my own theatre background, but with the benefit of hindsight I think at least some part of this can be attributed to me starting to feel burned out. I had the story finished in my head, and I knew that if I stopped I would never get to the ending I wanted, so I pushed through, to the detriment of the storytelling. My retroactive apologies.

I loved Noriko and her story.

I don't know why it still surprises me that Noriko was kind of the breakout character of this story, but I did love writing for her.

Which unfortunately beings me to another of the issues I had as I read. Hisao's journey. It felt like his arc didn't even really begin until nearly 40 to 50 chapters in.
<...snip...>
Again, it's hard for me to exactly fault being as it was part of the point, but at the same time it felt like the issues were already moving towards being solved around him and decisions were coming to fruition long before he actively participated in them.

What can I say? Hisao gonna Hisao. Especially Lilly!Hisao, who was even more stagnant than the versions from other routes. It took that long because it had to.

But I also really liked how so many HUGE expectations were set-up and played out realistically. Things like Noriko handing Hisao his number and him just leaving it on his desk while rumors float around about her, just to be played straight "What's this?" "Noriko's number." "Interesting. Ok moving on!" and it wasn't just small things like that, it was everything throughout the entire story. Big meetups that some might expect to be over-dramatic or play out like we've seen a thousand times before were instead approached maturely and with respect to the characters AND readers alike.

Thanks! As I've said many times, it's always good to hear that I accomplished something I set out to do.

I also enjoyed how three dimensional most characters were throughout the entire read. The biggest standout that failed in this department for me was Shin. Other characters with appearances just as short as his felt farm more interesting, bro...

*laughs* Yeah, Shin was probably the only character in this story that was pretty much just a walking plot device / exposition. Agreed that I could have done more with him, for sure.

But aside from him the other largely lackluster character for me was Iwanako. Her conversation felt very short and terse despite it kind of being the last "built up" conflict to resolve. It felt like the conversation was just getting started, then abruptly it went the way of "all right. Let's go back to Emi now."

That's also understandable. Iwanako's part -- along with my portrayal of Miss Yumi -- was one place where I wound up pulling my punches, because at the time, I really felt like Iwanako was Leaty's character, and I didn't want to step outside of her portrayal of her in what was then a going concern in Mean Time to Breakdown. I see you've read Bantamweights, which also informed her character here.

Iwanako just felt... present? I guess. If any of that makes any sense.

Yeah, definitely.

While I find it very unlikely I would have latched onto Katawa Shoujo earlier in my life than when I did, it's stories like this one that make me wish I had still. To only be here so long after it's all said and done saddens me a little, but I'm still glad to have eventually found it all.

I know that feeling. Heck, I felt like I was late to the party and I only got here a couple years after release.

If you ever happen to read this... long piece, Dewelar, I want to say thanks for all the inspiration you gave me and the amazing story. It was truly a fantastic read and I hope my long rants don't overshadow that fact. I aspire to be able to complete my own work with as much passion and quality as you.

*bows* I am glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for posting this!

I have just finished reading this, and while it's fresh in my mind, I just wanted to say thank you. I loved it from start to finish.

Thank you very much!

Emis internal monologue on the track in chapter 59 genuinely made me cry, and the chapter from Rin's perspective captured Rins... Oddities fantastically. I really really enjoyed rins chapter.

*bows* Very kind words.

There are only a few things I disliked about this story; mostly involving Misha oddly enough.

Yeah, I can understand that. I probably struggled with her chapter and her voice more than anyone else's.

1) that Hanako did not mention anything about helping Misha during her appointment with miss yumi. This felt like it would have been a good opportunity for hanako to verbalise that she could be support for people rather than constantly being supported.

Hmmm...I think Hanako still wasn't confident enough in herself to make that statement, but I can understand why one could think otherwise.

2) Misha didn't get a proper ending. She was tense with shizune, and then that's the last you really see of her. It felt like her story could have had a little more to it at the end. I realise this was partially resolved with the epilogue but that only really resolved matters from shizune's perspective.

Fair. I'd have to think about what that resolution would have been, but it would have lain outside the time frame of this story.

3) Contrary to rins chapter, I'm not sure that you quite captured Mishas essence in her own chapter. I get that Misha is meant to come across as having the energy of a coked up squirrel, but I doubt her internal monologue is quite so annoying.

*laughs* Again, fair. I mentioned my reasoning for the portrayal in the post-chapter discussion, but you have every right to disagree.

4) I really wish that hisao has stood up to his bitch of a mother when she compared emi to a dog. That really made my blood boil after everything emi did for hisao. I'd have gotten some real satisfaction from him saying that it wouldn't be necessary for her welcome emi back with open arms; he chooses the dog over her and hoped she enjoyed speaking to the daughter she's wished she always had.

Indeed, if I were ever masochistic enough to write a continuation, this might very well be the climax of that story, and the completion of Hisao's arc at last. Maybe someone else can write that bit...

Again, glad you enjoyed this -- thanks for the comments, and take care y'all!