The Shizune vs. Lilly scene

[Fronzel]

I guess this is a little late, but A22's gibber-blog made me think of it again, and I thought I should express it.

I was really impressed with the way the infamous "Shizune and Lilly hate each other" scene was put together. When you learn more about each girl, you can understand their motivations for acting as they did so well you can see that neither is conveniently being unreasonable or playing the villain just to drive the scene along. They're experiencing a genuine conflict of personalities! The scene transcends its purpose of forcing the player to choose between the Shizune and Lilly/Hanako paths by being rooted in the characters taking part in it. I find it works very well.

To specify:

Lilly enjoys life at a slow pace and dislikes the hectic activity of the festival (witness her relief when it’s finally over), but performs her duties as class representative regardless and without complaint. Given this, and her blindness, it’s not very strange that she’s a little late turning in the form, or that she had someone else fill it out. She doesn’t appreciate Shizune pushing so hard on the subject and may regard her as overly exacting.

Shizune on the other hand, is practically organizing the entire festival herself for the benefit of the entire school and takes it quite seriously, and can’t abide that Lilly seems to be slacking on her relatively small responsibility. She drives herself hard and may see Lilly's tardiness and lack of vigor as laziness or incompetence and doesn't want her work spoiled by the failings of others.

From each girl's perspective, they're behaving quite reasonably while the other is not. Of course there was conflict.

[Deimos]

Excuse me if I can not grasp the obvious but what kind of discussion do you want to stir between us?

[G3n0c1de]

I think he is explaining how he feels the characters work and how that dictates what they do in the fight scene. That being said, he isn't leaving much room for discussion about it. It is like his personal analysis of the situation. Perhaps we are to talk about his view of things, differences of opinion perhaps? Or we share our own analyses of the fight?

My addition to the OP's post: I think you left out that Shizune is hyper competitive, that would be a prime reason for her to so willingly engage in their quarrel. For a matter such as that, it seemed like Shizune, as the provoker, trumped up her reasons to be angry at Lilly just as an excuse to fight with her. She probably just wanted a challenge, and unlike Lilly, probably found it fun. Like she was sparring with Lilly, only it was mental. She felt it was a good sparring session, I could just imagine herself feeling smug about what she did. She exercised her wit and cunning, and came off better than her rival. To her, she didn't really overstep any bounds. However, Lilly didn't really want to spar, she'd much rather settle a trivial matter like that in a more simple way. Though when challenged, she didn't back down. And I think, unlike Shizune, she tried to exercise restraint. She was fighting defensively.

There may also be another reason, though this may not be the case at all. Within the game's premise, Hisao can fall in love with any of the girls, in a way, making them all rivals. Shizune might have been competing against Lilly in order to impress Hisao. In her mind, her defeating Lilly would be a good display of her capability. Or Hisao might not even be a part of it, because they were rivals before that. She wants to prove that she is better than her rival, and what better way to do this than challenge her and defeat her in front of others? Lilly probably wants to just avoid conflict and live in peace, to do that, she tries avoids Shizune.

[HeMeido]

That, or Shizune's deaf and Lilly's blind and they'll never be able to talk to each other.

[Deimos]

Thank you, G3n0c1de, for giving me some starters.

The only winner in this scene is Hisao and the player by extension because who is right in this argument can not be determined. Hisao wins by default because he bears witness to a moment devoid of pretended friendship but not as bad as open hostility.
This enables him and the player to gain insight into the characteristics of the "combatants" and thankfully not into the perpetually positive personality traits that are so prevalent in bishoujo-games but into a relatively normal display of womanly behaviour. Instead of endless flirting and learning more and more about the endearing charms of the heroines we are presented with an early confrontation which probably foreshadows future events.

But let us dwell on the point of being right for a moment. As much as the scene reveals that Shizune's need for competition and her determination has its bad consequences for other people who do not live up to her standards and as much as it shows that even Lilly who is a refined Lady is not unskilled in the fields of rhetorical battles and in using an unexpected language (the "heaven and hell" comment was bordering on outright insulting) it is wonderfully built around the point that Hisao has to make a seemingly small decision that will influence the rest of his social life in Yamaku.
And this decision is whatever its outcome "right".

The player may follow the path of stoicism and strive to follow the society-sustaining obligations that Shizune represents or he may be more lenient and empathic and follow the philosophical school of Epicureanism. Whatever moral obligations the players has or for whomever his weak male heart pounds harder he is always making the right choice - that is the allowed and sweet madness we call human love.

[Riku]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

[AutisticPsycho]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

Everyone noticed.

The only slight eroge moment in Act 1, aside from Kenji figleaf.

[Exdi]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

Who wouldn't notice something like that?

As for the whole analysis between Shizune and Lilly, let me sum it up into one sentence:

They're nothing more than foils of one another's character both in mentality and physical disabilities, which allows the player (or Hisao) to decide which girl has a more appealing character.

[Guest]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

Most out of place thing in the entire demo. Felt like twilight zone there for a moment.

[Juno]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

STOP STEM CELL RESEARCH

[Xybaro]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

STOP STEM CELL RESEARCH

Lol, is that what it really says on her underwear?

*goes and checks*

Edit: There is some writing... but it's too blurry for me to see

[Duo2Cuo]

Am I the only one that noticed Shizune's underwear was visible?

STOP STEM CELL RESEARCH

Lol, is that what it really says on her underwear?

*goes and checks*

Edit: There is some writing... but it's too blurry for me to see

Yes, that's what it really says. There is also a sketch of Misha in the end credits of her wearing a "Bush/Cheney 2004" shirt. Either Shizune and Misha are staunch republicans or the devs are master trolls. I suspect the latter.

[Juno]

Yes, that's what it really says. There is also a sketch of Misha in the end credits of her wearing a "Bush/Cheney 2004" shirt. Either Shizune and Misha are staunch republicans or the devs are master trolls. I suspect the latter.

Of course. I don't think two Japanese schoolgirls would be so interested in another country's political standings.

[anon]

Yes, that's what it really says. There is also a sketch of Misha in the end credits of her wearing a "Bush/Cheney 2004" shirt. Either Shizune and Misha are staunch republicans or the devs are master trolls. I suspect the latter.

Of course. I don't think two Japanese schoolgirls would be so interested in another country's political standings.

I think they would. If one is to take over the world, one must learn about their victims' political minds

[erisi236]

That scene has been my computer wallpaper since I first saw it.