Yamaku Book Club (20220124 Dish Washing)

[Blasphemy]

You know, when people say sex scenes are hard to write and you look at the one featured in this story, you know that's someone who can write real good.

I'm not necessarily a fan of that kind of premise but it was done really well. Unlike usually the case when there's something going wrong/bad with Hisao and Lilly, Hanako isn't the next romantic interest. Having her actually married to another, very nice guy was interesting (especially since she was still part of the story). Also enjoyed Akira and how she goes about supporting a lot.

[bhtooefr]

And now to comment on my own recommendation.

Inspirational speeches are always cheesy. Always. And, really, I could see a Hanako that's been hardened by life (and, let's face it, even with Lilly and Hisao's support, she's pretty fucked in Japan) having that mentality very easily.

Shizune's absence isn't something that I noticed in my reading, but now that you point it out, it is a rather major omission.

The main thing that didn't flow well for me was actually the relationship with Emi. I saw it coming from a mile away (as soon as the physical therapist was female, really). The pacing felt a bit odd somehow, and her (hidden under joking, at least that's how I read it) anxiety about her breast size - something that she showed no indications of having problems with in the VN, it was her height that she had a complex about (and that's where I would've steered her anxieties, especially when it's Lilly that she had to walk in the footsteps of) - felt out of place. She felt a touch off, but then, given her career, she probably had the most off-screen character development by far. And, their relationship wasn't explored particularly in depth, but admittedly, that wasn't the point of the story, the point was to get Hisao to a place where he could move on from Lilly.

Oh, and I've been paying attention to so much first-person stuff lately that the third-person perspective just seemed weird to me. There's also some formatting and punctuation quirks that I'd have done differently, but that's a minor issue, not an issue with the story itself really.

All in all, an excellent read, with great character development for almost everyone involved (especially considering its length - it did a good job for most characters of flowing the development between Yamaku and the events of the story into the gap, without having to call it out), and when I stumbled across it, I was amazed that it hadn't made it into the Library.

[Blasphemy]

I was actually pleasantly surprised about Shizune not being Yamaku's principle for once ;P

Gotta agree with Emi's encounter though. Not only was it clear who that physical therapist would be, but they also had to pump into each other, heh.

[Oddball]

The main thing that didn't flow well for me was actually the relationship with Emi. I saw it coming from a mile away (as soon as the physical therapist was female, really). The pacing felt a bit odd somehow, and her (hidden under joking, at least that's how I read it) anxiety about her breast size - something that she showed no indications of having problems with in the VN, it was her height that she had a complex about (and that's where I would've steered her anxieties, especially when it's Lilly that she had to walk in the footsteps of) - felt out of place. She felt a touch off, but then, given her career, she probably had the most off-screen character development by far. And, their relationship wasn't explored particularly in depth, but admittedly, that wasn't the point of the story, the point was to get Hisao to a place where he could move on from Lilly.

I think the problem was that they continued their relationship too far for the story. The whole premises seemed to be Hisao learning to live again and move on. Then it keeps going past that and he's in another relationship. If the story had ended just as Emi was asking him about the dinner, I think it would have worked a lot better. It would have shown that romance was possible again for Hisao without forcing the issue.

The other problem I had was that the inclusion of Rin just felt unneeded. If any of the cast was going to just drift away and never been seen again, it's her. This especially stands out in a story where even Hanako has started to move away and live her own life.

I was pleasantly surprised that neither Shizune nor Misha turned up again as Yamaku staff. It seems like in these stories they always tend to do that. The fact that Shizune didn't even get a mention is a bit odd though.

Overall though, it was a very good read. Strong emotional, and still feeling very real.

[Sea]

*Yawn* I'm not late. Here's the thing:

Mendācium – Epilogue by Brogurt (complete, ca. 14.000 words)
PoV: Hisao; Pairings: Hisao x Hanako; Begins: after Hanako good end
Remarks: sex, rape

Because controversy, thats why, now shut up and go read it, by like the 6th or something. Ima sleep now.

[Mahorfeus]

Ah, that one. Well then...

[Mirage_GSM]

I guess I'll skip that one. This dead horse has been flogged enough...

[dewelar]

I guess I'll skip that one. This dead horse has been flogged enough...

Eh, I wasn't around for much of the flogging, so I'll give it a lash or two, but I'm not about to subject myself to reading it again. Once was quite enough.

[Oddball]

I read it once, then I re-read it after the first rewrite, but I didn't bother for any of the other changes.

[Mahorfeus]

Facetiousness aside, it was an interesting read to say the least. I doubt anyone's opinion has changed since it first came out, so I am honestly not expecting much in the way of meaningful discussion. Nonetheless, I am interested in reading more opinions.

[bhtooefr]

I actually have some thoughts on it, but they definitely count as negative.

I do suspect that the discussion isn't going to be particularly productive for the most part, though, given that everything that really needs to be said has already been said in the fic's thread.

[brythain]

I actually have some thoughts on it, but they definitely count as negative.

I do suspect that the discussion isn't going to be particularly productive for the most part, though, given that everything that really needs to be said has already been said in the fic's thread.

It all boils down to a) whether you think Hisao can be a saint or not, b) whether you believe Hanako can be redeemed or not. Canon doesn't say he is, but doesn't explicitly disallow it. Same for her. And after that, it's all really a mirror reflecting who we are and what kind of human interactions (and people) we'll accept.

[Oscar Wildecat]

It occurs to me that the concept behind Mendācium would have worked much better as a Neutral End continuation. Like most Good End Fracture Fics (the only term I can think of for the opposite of a Bad End Fix Fic), it pulls the protagonists too far out-of-character to be believable. (In general, the same arguments that have been made for/against Bad End Fix Fics can also be made about Good End Fracture Fics...but that's a topic for another thread.)

[Blasphemy]

^

Yup. I just remember this story having a Hanako so OOC that it becomes somewhat pointless discussing the scenario.

[bhtooefr]

Are we discussing it early? Looks like we're discussing it early.

One question is whether you think Hanako can be a sinner, not just whether Hisao can be a saint. I actually believe that the core premise - the idea of Hanako cheating on Hisao, and them dealing with the aftermath - is possible (and I've got some partial drafts setting up just such a scenario)... but sure as fuck not that way.

The idea that Hanako would decide that Hisao's not good enough in bed (well, OK, that part I can see, but I think she'd bottle it up, rather than find an outlet for her sexual urges with someone else), and as soon as she got a little confidence, she'd go pick up a "bad boy", is extremely problematic, and hints towards the author having some rather misogynist viewpoints. It's a common sentiment among the self-proclaimed Nice Guys (uppercase intentional, read the linked article) that feel that they're entitled to sex for being nice, that women automatically go for "bad boys" and hate nice guys (lowercase intentional).

Now, ignoring that, I could certainly believe that Hanako would be both suicidal and terrified of Hisao, after cheating on him, and then getting raped. I didn't particularly care for the execution, but at least it was more believable.

I'm not sure I can believe the WAY that Hisao forgave her, but I could believe that he did it ultimately.