Liking Shizune but not enjoying her route?

[AaronIsCrunchy]

It's a little different too, since with Emi, she does try to keep it as physical as possible as an emotional barrier, but Hisao very clearly is dating her the whole time.

Absolutely, and with Lilly, it's a nice romantic-relationship-with-healthy-adolescent-sex-drive, clearly not wanting to lose Hisao, but also with the knowledge that she'll be leaving soon - Hisao's unaware of this, but I think if there was a barrier between them, that was it. Shizune though... I guess the barrier IS the Student Council, though it might also be Misha (albeit maybe unwittingly) - when Hisao spends the time at Shizune's, half the time Shizune's out, doing something with Misha, and it seems to me that maybe Shizune has trouble dealing with the two of them on a purely social basis.

[metalangel]

I think Shizune realized too late, having enticed Hisao, what the effect would be on Misha. Part of the sex thing is her awkwardly rushing to try and reassure Hisao that she is still interested in him but is running damage control with Misha.

[pandaphil]

I can't believe its been well over a year and I still haven't played her route. I don't hate her, I just can't work up enough enthusiasm to want to find out what her stories like.

[d2r]

I can't believe its been well over a year and I still haven't played her route. I don't hate her, I just can't work up enough enthusiasm to want to find out what her stories like.

Just pour yourself a tall glass of scotch, sit down on an evening when you have nothing to do, and tank the entire thing in one go. It's what I did. :p

[Oddball]

It's a little different too, since with Emi, she does try to keep it as physical as possible as an emotional barrier, but Hisao very clearly is dating her the whole time.

Absolutely, and with Lilly, it's a nice romantic-relationship-with-healthy-adolescent-sex-drive, clearly not wanting to lose Hisao, but also with the knowledge that she'll be leaving soon - Hisao's unaware of this, but I think if there was a barrier between them, that was it. Shizune though... I guess the barrier IS the Student Council, though it might also be Misha (albeit maybe unwittingly) - when Hisao spends the time at Shizune's, half the time Shizune's out, doing something with Misha, and it seems to me that maybe Shizune has trouble dealing with the two of them on a purely social basis.

Shizune puts up her own barriers. She basically puts everything and everybody into little categories and has trouble when they don't quite fit.

Hisao is "student council member" the majority of the time. If she has time later, he's "boyfriend". He's never "her boyfriend that happens to be on the student council."

Likewise with Misha, Shizune made it clear that they would never be in the "girlfriends" category together, so that shouldn't effect anything else they do. The fact that nobody really fits into any single category is what throws her. Shizune just doesn't know how to handle people when they break out of her little definitions.

[Potato]

I can't believe its been well over a year and I still haven't played her route. I don't hate her, I just can't work up enough enthusiasm to want to find out what her stories like.

Go do that. But her story can be summarized pretty well as "frustrating"...As can all the others, really.

[Liminaut]

I went through and carefully compared Shizune's good and bad ends, scene by scene, to see what was actually going on and the actual repercussions of the comforting.

The differences are pretty subtle (although not in the final effect, of course). In Shizune's good end, Hisao can be gently supportive of Misha, whereas in the bad end he's pretty cold. This means that all of the emotional action is really going on off-screen with Shizune and Misha. This is part of Shizune's route being an interesting story and a frustrating game. All the action is masked, on way or another.

And this is part of why I was deeply annoyed with Hisao in this route. A few minutes of bad sex and suddenly he's a cold fish. Way to go, hero.

[Potato]

Way to go, hero.

But he's not a hero...Him thinking he is is what causes a certain bad end.

[SpunkySix]

Not to sidetrack things because we're doing a better job of being focused lately, but I keep reading this as "Licking Shizune but not enjoying her route" and it's freaking me out a little...

[Liminaut]

Not to sidetrack things because we're doing a better job of being focused lately, but I keep reading this as "Licking Shizune but not enjoying her route" and it's freaking me out a little...

No, Rin is the cunnilingus route.

[SpunkySix]

Not to sidetrack things because we're doing a better job of being focused lately, but I keep reading this as "Licking Shizune but not enjoying her route" and it's freaking me out a little...

No, Rin is the cunnilingus route.

I... had to look that up.

Does that actually happen? Like, in her route. Obviously it happens.

[Liminaut]

Not to sidetrack things because we're doing a better job of being focused lately, but I keep reading this as "Licking Shizune but not enjoying her route" and it's freaking me out a little...

No, Rin is the cunnilingus route.

I... had to look that up.

Does that actually happen? Like, in her route. Obviously it happens.

Unless my memory is very badly off, it happens in the final h-scene in Rin's good ending.

[Megumeru]

Shizune's route is fine. It's reader-intensive and not a bag of fluff-ball that you cough up in the end of some of the more 'fluff-intensive' route.

Shizune explains early on about how 'actions' matters more than words--if my memory serves me right. If you take her word for granted, you'll miss a lot of plot-points or things she does to show you that she genuinely cares for Hisao. Not to mention it's also culturally-intensive, so unless you're very-VERY familiar with Japanese culture and customs (or has grew up experiencing it) you'd probably will not catch some of the more important/glaring facts of what is going on.


...I think there was a huge argument/debate about something like this a year ago.

[AaronIsCrunchy]

Shizune's route is fine. It's reader-intensive and not a bag of fluff-ball that you cough up in the end of some of the more 'fluff-intensive' route.

Shizune explains early on about how 'actions' matters more than words--if my memory serves me right. If you take her word for granted, you'll miss a lot of plot-points or things she does to show you that she genuinely cares for Hisao. Not to mention it's also culturally-intensive, so unless you're very-VERY familiar with Japanese culture and customs (or has grew up experiencing it) you'd probably will not catch some of the more important/glaring facts of what is going on.


...I think there was a huge argument/debate about something like this a year ago.

On the cultural part, there is a large part of that to do with Jigoro - he seems to me to want to see a return to the older hierarchy of Japan, and in particular displays samurai ideals. For example, he displays a certain element of kirisutegomen, or the allowance to cut down anybody of a lower class that threatens to challenge honour. Although he doesn't do this physically (despite fancy looking katana), he talks about honour and respect a lot (or lack of), and chooses to 'cut-down' through a series of insults.

I did learn a couple of bits about psychoanalysis from Shizune's route as well - blocks of text stretching pages long on the subject tend to do that. NOT that I minded.

[Megumeru]

On the cultural part, there is a large part of that to do with Jigoro - he seems to me to want to see a return to the older hierarchy of Japan, and in particular displays samurai ideals. For example, he displays a certain element of kirisutegomen, or the allowance to cut down anybody of a lower class that threatens to challenge honour. Although he doesn't do this physically (despite fancy looking katana), he talks about honour and respect a lot (or lack of), and chooses to 'cut-down' through a series of insults.

I did learn a couple of bits about psychoanalysis from Shizune's route as well - blocks of text stretching pages long on the subject tend to do that. NOT that I minded.

You're close on that one.

Thing is about today's youth--even in Japan--is how the sense of 'respect' slightly 'waned' towards the more elderly. What's more, however, is the simple fact that maybe Jigoro is just being over-protective. Ever wonder what caused Jigoro to be the single parent of Shizune and Hideaki or where does he get that dismissive attitude towards Hisao? There's a backstory of the family, to which I am speculating that Jigoro's wife died after Hideaki was born (childbirth complications, accidents, etc.)

what's more, none of the members in the family are capable of communicating with Shizune after figuring out she is a deaf/mute. Now imagine you're in Jigoro's shoes for a moment, struggling to communicate with your daughter who--I believe--to be the last 'spitting image' of your late-wife. One day, your daughter brought home her boyfriend who KNOWS how to communicate with her and is CAPABLE to. You would certainly go to lengths to dismiss him entirely; less chance of him taking your precious

The katana he carries around could be--or may be--the Hakamichi's family heirloom that has been passed around through generations which means he does have absolute authority over the Hakamichi household. This also means that he gets to hand the heirloom down to Hisao if he agrees that he can continue the lineage (or Hideaki. Commonly, it is handed down to males but exceptions are made sometimes). You can actually safely assume that Jigoro is your typical asian father.


There's more stuff to look at. For example, the bento Shizune made for Hisao (if you don't know what a bento is, look it up. It takes a lot of time, effort, and dedication since food here is not just about taste--it's also how it is to be presented). When you look at Shizune and her actions as well as her constant exchange of banters between Shizune and Hisao, it all falls to the reader to actually 'capture' that moment when she is genuinely showing affection. Some of the problem of Shizune's routes are these:

1. Shizune call the shots, not you.
2. Shizune overly-relies on herself so as not to trouble others (her own little 'containment' of problems, acting so as it doesn't spread to unrelated parties)
3. Shizune's mean of showing affection isn't by performing physical actions such as kisses, hugs, wtv alone; she--being unable to speak--heavily weights on the meaning of words and how powerful it is with the former being in its supportive role to PROVE said words.
4. Shizune is shy and will often keep things to herself--remember the solution of the 'problem' in her route? Hisao was the one who confronts both of them and convinced Shizune to 'not keep everything to herself'.

You can almost say to the point that Shizune's story line and character herself is very-very rooted to its Japanese tradition, whereas the complete opposite of it--Lilly--being half-Scottish made it a lot more 'western-friendly' since her route touches more on the 'familiar' side of culture.

Having spent most of my life in here pretty much made me lean more towards Shizune and how 'down to earth' it is compared to the more fairytale-like opposite. That, or I may just not have any taste for blondes at all