Yamaku Book Club (20220124 Dish Washing)

[Comrade]

Is the levant a part of the gulf or mediteranian council?

[Mirage_GSM]

I never went into that much detail...
It also depends on what exactly you include in the "Levant" since definitions seem to vary.
I probably would have decided according to story requirements when - if ever - the question came up in the story,

But before everyone asks about their homecountries: Here is a (very interesting) map of global drainage basins. I didn't have that as a reference when I wrote the story, but it comes surprisingly close to what I had in mind - except for most of Europe which I wouldn't have assigned to the Atlantic but instead split between Mediterranean and Arctic and South America where I envisioned the divide a bit further east.

[Oddball]

Secondly, (I really have got to shake this numerical thing) Comrade, as Khan Bek has convinced me to give Democracy a try, at least this time until we find out if it'll work or no, so the next fic shall be decided by popular consensus among a pool of 3 fics, which are as follows:

Democracy takes too long.

I'd suggest that the current President chose the story, once the story is chose, he turns the title over to another person. As the discussion dies down, the next president choses the story.

(Or to make it sound more "club-ish" say that "I now turn the chair over to ____."

[Comrade]

sea is the president because he started the thread and he can edit the op whenever he wants, and it was him who SC gave the permission to be one.
Would sea just choose whoever he wants to be president? Why? That is the sort of thing that causes arguments on who'll be next. How can we trust every single person to be just and notuse the position to promote his own stories? By giving a choice we make this club into a community buisness, by taking it away we alienated the majority. Also, waiting for the discussion to die down will take a longer time then having the PM vote.
Having the vote take place during the meeting would mean that no time is wasted between a meeting and reading period.

As i've said, I see absolutely no reason nit to have a vote. It would make the club so much better if the members actually have a say in what the club is going to do.

Also just to keep things on topic i think all suggestions regarding managing the club should be directed towards Sea via PM

[Mirage_GSM]

So far I haven't seen anyone who would be alienated.
And what's the worst that could happen? Sea chooses a story that nobody likes, discussion is over in a day and the next story begins sooner. Noone hurt.
Anyway, if Sea wants to go through the hassle of collecting and counting votes, then he should do so. I for one won't complain if he makes the choice himself.
I might sugget a few stories to him, but I don't intend to cast a vote here.

[Comrade]

Well then this is up to sea whether or not he's willing to keep up with the vote. I don't think there is anything else to say.
Lets get back on topic

[AntonSlavik020]

Just finished the story for the first time. Overall, I really liked it. For some reason, it had a hard time grabbing my attention early on, but once I got to where Hisao was taking part in everyone's lessons, I couldn't stop reading(I was at chapter 6 when I started reading it today). As other people of said, the magic element was handled great. Wasn't too overblown. I really liked the romantic parings. I think there was on other story that had Kenji-Hanako. Any story that has him dating one of the girls is a positive for me. Speaking of, I thought the way you handled Kenji no longer being an anti-feminist was great. Focusing his attention elsewhere is the most believable way for it to happen. I also thought the way they defeated the far more powerful mages was believable. Using tricks rather than out right matching their power.

In terms of the voting thing, if we're doing that, I vote for United States of Misha. If not, I'm okay with that. I trust Sea(or whoever else gets to chose) to pick a good fic.

[Helbereth]

It's strange to think this now, so many months after writing it, but when I wrote the Kenji reflection bit in Five Year Illumination - where he recalls the incidents leading to his becoming so reclusive - I struck on a very similar chord as Mirage did by having his aversion toward women manifest following a sexual encounter. Granted, in my version it was with a certain Librarian, and was accompanied by his reading some rather alarmist material about modern feminism, but the trigger event remains the same. At the time I hadn't read this story - I only read it this past week - so I wonder if it's something a lot of people assume contributed to his anti-feminism, or if Mirage and I are just on similar wavelengths.

[AntonSlavik020]

It's strange to think this now, so many months after writing it, but when I wrote the Kenji reflection bit in Five Year Illumination - where he recalls the incidents leading to his becoming so reclusive - I struck on a very similar chord as Mirage did by having his aversion toward women manifest following a sexual encounter. Granted, in my version it was with a certain Librarian, and was accompanied by his reading some rather alarmist material about modern feminism, but the trigger event remains the same. At the time I hadn't read this story - I only read it this past week - so I wonder if it's something a lot of people assume contributed to his anti-feminism, or if Mirage and I are just on similar wavelengths.

I think Kenji mentions it in his ending, though I haven't seen it in years so i could be wrong.

[Mirage_GSM]

I struck on a very similar chord as Mirage did by having his aversion toward women manifest following a sexual encounter. ... so I wonder if it's something a lot of people assume contributed to his anti-feminism, or if Mirage and I are just on similar wavelengths.

Anton is right. That part was in Kenji's ending "The Deep End" aka the manly picknick. It was the one experience even worse than being shat on by a bird, and it was already in Act 1, so I was even able to stick to canon for that
So did you avoid that ending or did you just forget?

[Helbereth]

So did you avoid that ending or did you just forget?

I had to look it up after finishing everything else. By the time it was half over I was barely paying attention. It was probably in my head, but I wasn't consciously aware.

[Sea]

Hello all, firstly I'd like to say you are all now members of the club wooo! *Pops a confetti popper left over from new years* I'm saving this last one I found in the closet for the ninth meeting . . .

Well then this is up to sea whether or not he's willing to keep up with the vote. I don't think there is anything else to say.
Lets get back on topic

Votes have been updated, PM me yours and I'll be looking for it.

So far I haven't seen anyone who would be alienated.
And what's the worst that could happen? Sea chooses a story that nobody likes, discussion is over in a day and the next story begins sooner. Noone hurt.
Anyway, if Sea wants to go through the hassle of collecting and counting votes, then he should do so. I for one won't complain if he makes the choice himself.
I might suggest a few stories to him, but I don't intend to cast a vote here.

I'm perfectly fine with few voters, but this way at least it'll minimize the problems sated in the first point so that no one will hopefully have a story they don't like, and If we get alot of votes for 2 stories, then I'll know what to choose for the next discussion. Also, The vote counting think isn't really a problem, PM's are easy to count up.

Democracy takes too long.
I'd suggest that the current President chose the story, once the story is chose, he turns the title over to another person. As the discussion dies down, the next president choses the story.

Yes democracy takes a bit, but it also prevents major conflict as the state of world affairs should show you. If a large enough problem arises of speed for the next fic, then we'll go to a 'I choose all the things' basis, but I want to see how this turns out. Also, I am the Kagan, there are no others. Comrade's role is to choose a fic should I be away.

Pertaining to the next story and for the sake of time, voting is closed at 24:00 GMT on the 2nd

[ProfAllister]

...and here I was thinking that a thread entitled "Yamaku Book Club" in the "Fanfic" section was a fanfic about the Yamaku Book club.

As such, I had filed it away on my list of "To read... eventually." Then someone asked my opinion, so I took a look, and - surprise, surprise - Akio, Lezard, Suzu, and Lelouch/Notlelouch continue to be neglected. Not that I'm entirely disappointed. I'm actually very much in favor of having some real, honest, and (hopefully) hard-hitting discussion of works here. Sadly, I feel that there's not enough discussion on most of the actual works threads, even in the best of times.

Since I'm late to the party, a few thoughts on the whole "this is a thing that is happening" moving forward:

I'm another voice in favor of looking at anything and/or everything that's potentially ripe for discussion (completed, in progress, or abandoned). And the method for doing so should be obvious: break discussion of larger/incomplete works into neatly packaged bite-sized bundles, be they chapters, acts, interludes, or whatever. Even when discussing works as a whole, it might be a recommended "best practice" to break down the response to a work into discrete sections - one for a general overall impression, one (each) for any overarching themes, and one (each) for a specific chapter/scene (of note).

I really don't care much either way on the question of democracy vs. dictatorship, but it is worth noting that, by virtue of being the thread owner, Sea is essentially granted a sort of "Supreme Dictator for Life" status. The only way to get around that would be to have multiple "Book Club" threads, with a new one for each "meeting," but that would just raise the obvious question of "Why not just discuss it in the damn thread itself?" My vote would be to put our fate in Sea's hands for the time being, and trust he can stumble through as a quasi-leader. If that means he wants to take votes by PM, so be it. If it means that the vote can be carried out in the public (but only by people who are actually participating in the discussion, and only through secret messages conveyed in the first word of each sentence), so be it. If this idea has any real merit once the honeymoon is over, it will be strong enough to carry on if Sea turns into an insane plutocrat.

ANYWAY, now on to the discussion of the work at hand.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

It's been well over a year since I read this, so I'm working from memory, but I do intend to play catch-up and give the more in-depth look it deserves.

I remember that it was "not terrible," which was a massive "exceeds expectations" and the highest praise I could give fan fiction back in those early days. (Trust me, it's more complimentary than it sounds). The writing was solid, the magic system consistent and explained without being intrusive, and I think I remember the characterisation being (internally) consistent. It was certainly good enough to help convince me that Mirage has some idea of what he's talking about when it comes to writing.

...I really need to reread this if only to make comments that don't sound like passive-aggressive insults.

However, there is one aspect which I am ready to talk about without a reread: Cancer.

First of all, I have a general aversion to cancer in stories. Primarily because (and I know I'm gonna get flak for this comparison) cancer fall into more or less the same category as rape when you're discussing narrative - it's a very serious, very significant, life-changing occurrence that tends to get a rather poor representation by inexperienced writers who resort to it as a quick "instant drama" recipe. It's not that you cant do it well; it's that it's generally done so poorly that the mere mention isn't so much a red flag as it is a glowing neon sign that reads "Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here."

I still make an effort to leave it as simply a yellow flag, and give the writer the benefit of the doubt, but I also have higher standards, especially if the writer has in the past demonstrated himself to be competent. Because of the stigma on this, I expect a good writer to generally avoid these taboos; to know that he should only approach that subject matter if he knows that he can give it the respect it deserves. As a result, it's not enough if he includes those elements and merely manages to avoid crashing and burning; he needs to take those elements and soar.

And, well, not to put too fine a point on it, "a wizard made it all better" doesn't really strike me as the ideal way to grapple with such a weighty subject.

In the end, it didn't crash and burn, but it didn't really soar, either.

General writing principles aside, I don't really feel that cancer would be a reason for admission to Yamaku per se. Especially when you're talking terminal cancer, it seems pretty antithetical to the mission and purpose of Yamaku. Yeah, the treatment would be available, but terminal cancer seems to be more oriented toward hospice care, which has a decidedly different endgame as compared to an educational institution. On the other hand, if the prognosis were good, especially if the cancer is in remission, I could see someone at Yamaku due to disabilities that came about as a result of cancer, but not due to the cancer itself.

That being said, now I need to reread the story so I can give it the full commentary it deserves...

[Comrade]

Ummm sea, there's no 29th..

[Helbereth]

Ummm sea, there's no 29th..

Perhaps Sea intends for us to discuss Katawa Kijo until 2016?