Yamaku Book Club (20220124 Dish Washing)

[Oscar Wildecat]

Thinking about the answer to my own question. 10,000-20,000 words feels about right. Like brythain said, the type of material would dictate the minimum length. For example, a psuedo-route would need more "words" to have enough material to be able to be hold a meaningful discussion than would an epilogue.

It's also possible to perhaps combine a selection of just started works-in-progress, one-shots, and aborted works into a "special topic" for the Book Club. For example, "A Glimpse into the Miki Curse?" with a look at a selection of Miki works could prove interesting.

Then again, this might be one of those "What is Art?" questions that is better left up to Rin and not Hisao...

[brythain]

I'm a bit of an empiricist… so one thing perhaps we can try to do is look at existing pieces and see what the shortest piece is that we'd really consider for a book discussion, and why that is so. So I started with the obvious: themocaw's 2400 words from a path never written.

Based on the metrics I proposed, it's a bit short on full characterisation, has nice interactions but not enough to give us a strong sense of possible plot branches, and does not lead us obviously in the direction of possible plot fulfilment. After all, that's its point — it's a snapshot of fragments from a possible path. There isn't enough narrative for me to have a book club discussion on it, although lots of other discussion is possible.

[forgetmenot]

I think, with the variety of fanfic that's on this board, it'd be prudent to evaluate the fanfics the book club reads on a case-by-case basis, nothing excluded. Sea has a pretty good idea of what will and what won't generate meaningful discussion, so for now I'm happy to leave the selection to the prez. For now, rules regarding selection of fics we can/can't discuss is putting the cart before the horse, methinks.

[Maristo]

I think, with the variety of fanfic that's on this board, it'd be prudent to evaluate the fanfics the book club reads on a case-by-case basis, nothing excluded. Sea has a pretty good idea of what will and what won't generate meaningful discussion, so for now I'm happy to leave the selection to the prez. For now, rules regarding selection of fics we can/can't discuss is putting the cart before the horse, methinks.

Couldn't agree more.

[Comrade]

Ok so lets get this straight.

At the end of every meeting the president will announce the topic of the next one (or we could have a vote on it) and the estimated reading time, which he'll have to decide on.

I was about to add a "no in progress works" myself, simply because it would be kinda stupid to have a discussion about opinions and analysis on a work before it is done.
(It's not like we'll have more then one meeting per fic, right?)

[brythain]

I'm happy with leaving it to the president. I'll abide by that.

[GorisTheKing]

So is the idea of this book club to spotlight and have some conversation about older or abandoned fanfic's without resurrecting a thread or posting about the second chapter of Tomorrows Doom on page 48?

[Comrade]

So is the idea of this book club to spotlight and have some conversation about older or abandoned fanfic's without resurrecting a thread or posting about the second chapter of Tomorrows Doom on page 48?

It is more than that. Its a place for the community to get together and share its thoughts on fan works.

Don't hesitate to discuss works that are not currently the meeting's subject. Since the meeting is not in order yet, it is good to have some sort of discussion going on.

[Helbereth]

I just woke up, so bear with me for a moment.

Something struck me while reading the past page of comments that I think may be a decent solution when discussing routes. They're unique compared to other stories that come through the forum because of one simple fact: they're not only separated by chapter, but also by act. The complete and incomplete works alike all have 2 or more acts which, if we assume the author plotted them with intent, create lines of delineation between large portions of the story.

It's almost as though each section were a book all its own.

If you take the idea a bit further and look at a route like Scissorlips Suzu Route, which has branching paths written into its narrative, you could analyze the individual paths that result from those decision points. Only one of those decision combinations led to the good ending in that story's case, while there were at least two diverging paths that led to... well... less good endings, at least.

Therefore instead of assigning the club to read all 250,000 words of the Suzu route, you could have us analyze the first act, then come back next week to focus on act two, and so on and so forth until all the endings are covered, up to and including the final 'good' ending. The same would work even with abandoned routes, which all typically have an act 1 completed up through the festival, even if the second act was never finished.

Just an idea, mind you.

[Comrade]

It might be good idea for the bigger fics, but i think we should start out with some smaller ones, until we get the formula right and all

[Sea]

To start out let me say i'd quote people to answer them but this post would be a kilometer long if I did.

Firstly, time given. The general consensus seems to be a average day's reading is about 10-20k words. Not sure if I should just use 15k as a stable point, as I'm sure people will finish before then, but I really dont want anyone to be left out of the discussion just because they were sick for a few days or unable to read.

Secondly, scheduling. This is directly tied to the first point, and i think I'll keep it fluid for now. After I feel everyone's said their pieces and the discussion has run dry I'll throw up the next fic. Note that if i do not, Comrade, as Vice Pooba has the authority to do so in my stead.

Thirdly, Completed fics v. In-progress. I was going to put out a only completed rule, but Maristo has put out some pretty good counter arguments concerning In-progress fics. I don't really want to overreach my powers in a Shizune kidna way (god knows this thing wouldn't work with just Misha and a Risk board) So after the first meeting, I'll select a new fic (No spoilers . . . . oh wait) and those that participated in the first meeting will be given member ship in the club, and I'll put it to a vote: Completed, or both. I don't want to resign us to only uncompleted fic as the lack of closure would literally kill me.

Fourth, Old v. New. Kinda reading between the lines on this one, but to answer goris, this won't be a club just about the old and established fics, The fact that Mirage's came up first is a happy accident in that they're solid and the author is here. I wont not choose something new or intriguing just because it's yet to be proven. Likewise, this won't be the 'lets look at all the new fanfiction' thread.

Fifth, Thanks to everybody whoose supported this so far, it's amazing the reaction I've gotten from everybody to be a part of this, and for the faith you somehow placed that I'm not groin to flip this on it's head, I shall do all I can.

[Comrade]

I strongly suggest not to include uncompleted fics, because as i've said it would be a waste of judguing them before they are finished. Discussing works in progress would be much more appropriate on the work's thread itself for reason mentioned earlier.

[Mirage_GSM]

I think Mirage's input would be awesome. I love the "behind-the-scenes" stuff, and while this probably won't be anything that detailed, it should still be interesting.

Well, since this story is over two years old, the people who participate in this thread should all have read it and I'm not likely to write a sequel anytime soon, I wouldn't have any problems "spoiling" my notes here - if you are interested.

Regarding the discussion on which fics to choose:
finished/unfinished:
I'd prefer finished stories, as most stories that are still regularly updated have an active discussion going on in their own threads. As for "abandoned"... that is mostly guesswork since few authors explicitly tell us if they abandoned a fic or are just on an extended hiatus.

old/new:
I have nothing against including new stories, but this thread could be a good way to bring to light some of the old gems of the forum that are not already known to the current batch of forum-goers.

length:
There are a lot of very good but short stories around that would be overlooked if you set a minimum length. An option would be to choose a set of three shorts - maybe with similar topic or by the same author - as the next topic.

announcements:
To avoid (or at least cut short) the time everybody has to spend reading the story to discuss you could announce the next topic when discussion on the current one starts. That way once the discussion peters out, you can immediately move on to the next one.
I'm also fine with Sea making the calls. Trying to make the choice democratic would be doomed to fail from the start. Best restrict suggestions to PMs, too.

[Helbereth]

I wouldn't have any problems "spoiling" my notes here - if you are interested.

This is the other major problem with choosing a fic-in-progress. If, for instance, someone chose Tomorrow's Doom as the topic of choice (for whatever sadistic reason), I would rather be able to provide the kind of author insight Mirage mentioned, but since it's currently incomplete, I'd have to withhold things just like I do on its own thread.

[Sea]

I wouldn't have any problems "spoiling" my notes here - if you are interested.

This is the other major problem with choosing a fic-in-progress. If, for instance, someone chose Tomorrow's Doom as the topic of choice (for whatever sadistic reason), I would rather be able to provide the kind of author insight Mirage mentioned, but since it's currently incomplete, I'd have to withhold things just like I do on its own thread.

Ya know of the amount of chatter Tomorrow's Doom has caused with it's ridiculous wordcount I almost want to. almost. And that wouldn't be entirely sadistic. Making everyone read 'With Regards to Harland Ellison and Cutter", now THAT would be sadistic. Pro tip: DONT LOOK THAT UP.
Also, I think Mirage might be right, and to the relief I'm sure of comrade we're scrapping the little democratic process that was going to be implemented.