Which ending(s) do you consider the worst?

[Guest Poster]

Well, that's what I was talking about when I said "cut off". Not cut her family off from herself entirely, just cut off the prospect of complying with their summons, which is what would compete with their relationship. Meaning make the decision to stay for him before even knowing if he loved her back.

I'd say that by the time Akira had that candid little talk with Hisao, Lilly must have already known that Hisao loved her back. He told her he loved her during her confession. He slept with her several times, despite the strain it could place on his heart. He went on dates with her. And most of all, he opened up to Lilly about his past life and the whole thing with Iwanako, which was a really big thing for him. And he opened up to a degree you didn't see on any of the other routes. If she still wasn't convinced that Hisao loved her, what could he have said that made it definite for her? A proposal? They're high school kids.

But the way you phrased that is interesting: "She didn't give him a choice.", "without informing him". This brings up the prospect of picking a time to tell him this summons was on the table.

It seems to me that before her confession, they weren't close enough yet to warrant telling him personal family business;

Not to mention there wasn't a lot of opportunity. There were like two days between Lilly coming back to Japan and her confessing to Hisao and a lot of that time was spent travelling, getting settled at the summer home and sleeping off the jet lag/exhaustion from the trip.

and afterward it would be too late (by the standard you're setting). So the only option left would be during. Which I can't quite imagine. "I love you, I love you, don't ever leave me, oh, and by the way, before you accept me, know that I'm thinking of going away forever in a few weeks, so you're playing the odds if you do." Weird. Weird at best. In all, I'm not sure there ever was a good time for Lilly to tell him, given the way their relationship played out.

I think Mirage meant to say that while there was no perfect timing, Lilly could still have picked the least bad timing which a few days after the confession. They had plenty of time alone.

You're right though that there was no perfect time. Lilly blurted out her feelings during a moment she was an emotional mess, got kind of carried away and after the adrenaline died down, she realized she accidentally set Hisao up for the disappointment of a lifetime, but she wasn't in a position any longer to remedy that. So she kept stalling while secretly hoping for a miracle.

[Mirage_GSM]

It seems to me that before her confession, they weren't close enough yet to warrant telling him personal family business; and afterward it would be too late (by the standard you're setting). So the only option left would be during. Which I can't quite imagine. "I love you, I love you, don't ever leave me, oh, and by the way, before you accept me, know that I'm thinking of going away forever in a few weeks, so you're playing the odds if you do." Weird. Weird at best. In all, I'm not sure there ever was a good time for Lilly to tell him, given the way their relationship played out.

So the alternative is to just refrain from confessing entirely, as I was postulating. And that would be even worse from an honesty point of view, not to mention a romance point of view.

Well, ideally she should have told him beofre or during the confession - probablyworded a bit differently...
Granted that was a very emotional moment, so one can excuse that. But at the latest she should have told him the next day after she slept over it and realized what she was about to do to Hisao. And Lilly is mature enough to realize that.
Yes, that would have meant she'd have to admit a mistake, but instead of admitting it, the longer she waited the worse she made that mistake.
You're right, there wasn't a perfect time to tell him, but there rarely is in this mess called life. There is however something you can call a neccessary time.

[Atario]

I'd say that by the time Akira had that candid little talk with Hisao, Lilly must have already known that Hisao loved her back.

Well, yeah. I meant it would be strange to tell her family no before she'd confessed to Hisao.

I think Mirage meant to say that while there was no perfect timing, Lilly could still have picked the least bad timing which a few days after the confession. They had plenty of time alone.

But that would still be entering into a relationship while knowing the summons was still in play, which was Mirage's complaint.

Lilly blurted out her feelings during a moment she was an emotional mess, got kind of carried away and after the adrenaline died down, she realized she accidentally set Hisao up for the disappointment of a lifetime, but she wasn't in a position any longer to remedy that. So she kept stalling while secretly hoping for a miracle.

Exactly. It was a difficult situation no matter how you cut it, and I can't condemn her for it.

Yes, that would have meant she'd have to admit a mistake, but instead of admitting it, the longer she waited the worse she made that mistake.

Who among us hasn't been in that kind of a mess? As they say, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[Oddball]

The best time to tell somebody a harsh truth is always "later."

[Potato]

The best time to tell somebody a harsh truth is always "later."

For the person telling it, sure...

[Katie]

@Munchy: rofl. I love you so much now. <3

[Texaboose]

"I-I king my r-r-rook and s-swap them," Hanako picks up her rook and king and swap them over, smiling at her tactic.
What is she doing?

"FUCKING BULLSHIT!" I can't control my anger. What the fuck does she think she's playing at?! That's not a thing I swear down on me mum's life, yeah. I bet she doesn't even know how to play chess the poser bitch. "THAT'S BULLSHIT AND YOU FUCKING KNOW IT!"

This is legit rage on Hisao's behalf. You can't castle when you're in check

[Munchenhausen]

This is legit rage on Hisao's behalf. You can't castle when you're in check

...I knew that!
I-It was a test!
You passed! Yay!
*books flight to mexico*

[ababol]

Emi's bad ending and Rin's "neutral" (neutral, my ass) ending. Emi's left me a really bad afteraste after seeing it, being horribly sad and everything (not completely unexpected, though, because the faux pas at Emi's house if you're not careful is quite brutal). But Rin's neutral ending... Oh God I was such a wreck. I had to play the good path again because "damn it, my last memory of this story it's not going to be THIS." Still makes me squirm.

[AussieInquisitor]

Well based on my on experiences of going through the VN about a year ago:

Emi's bad ending: Not too sure about this ending, since the Emi route is the one that, admittedly, I remember the least about, but the little red flags are clear to see and avoid.

Hanako's bad ending: Major red flags were flying during the lead up to this ending - ones which could easily be side-stepped - but, boy, I was not expecting Hanako to explode the way she did. All that was needed was to have the door violently slammed in front of Hisao's face just to punch the point home.

Thankfully, as mentioned above, this is a dead end a Hanako-committed player can easily spot and veer from, so some of the initial tension was a bit lost.

Rin - BE 1# (Atrium): Kinda easy to avoid and, out of the two endings, not really memorable to me on its own since it occurs pretty closer to the later stages of the route.

Rin - BE 2# (Street): This was probably the bad end that impacted on me the most, both between the two in the route and out of all of them. Rin's tone, body language and general mood, combined with the narrative of events, the gloominess (both in narrative and environment) and the implications implied all lend to an overall of nihilism that impacts pretty hard on me. The fact that this is (literally) the last time Hisao may see Rin really comes through in the final embrace they share before Rin disappears into the post-rain mist.

Lilly's bad ending: While Lilly's departure marks the nominal end of this branch of the story, it's a bit of a shame that we don't see how Lilly's departure effects things with her two best friends. Hanako was clearly beginning to thrive under her own steam, but lost one of the closest connections she had. Hisao, however, as her boyfriend and with Lilly being his closest "life-line", may have been devastated and this may have caused him to spiral down into his pre-Yamaku state.

I can't say anything with certainty, however, so this ending doesn't really impact me the most.

Shizune's bad ending: While you could see the dangers signs about this choice from kilometers away, how quickly events spun out of control and the devastating consequences it has on the friendship of Hisao, Misha and Shizune was something I simply was not expecting. It is the ending that outright states "YOU did this! YOU are responsible!", but Shizune is the one who blames herself the most for the fallout - an effect that seemed even more bitter to me in hindsight.

Overall, my personal pick for the two worst endings in my play-through of KS would be #1 - Rin's second bad ending and #2 Shizune's bad ending.

[wazuzu]

I can't pick the worst one overall. I'd start from the least wreckage.

Rin's bad one isn't that bad, Hisao just gets that he does not belong here and quits. Rin goes on with her alien life.
Her neutral one is much worse, it's a real stress for both of them. Rin will eventually go on with her life, maybe she will have the fate of Sae's husband, but it does not sound that bad, she has all the opportunities in her new college. Hisao, on the other hand, is much worse, but that's entirely his fault.

Emi's bad isn't that bad either. She will get upset, but overcome it by finding another stress-relief boyfriend.

Hanako's bad is a pressure cooker blown up by excess steam pressure. It was going to go off one day or another. Nothing truly wrecking here, she will make up a quarrel with Lilly and will avoid Hisao. As for him, that's again his punishment for being an ignorant retard.
Hanako's neutral one is much worse. I see this one as a Hanako crushing down to the lowest level she can be on. She gets used to being treated as a porcelain doll, gets even more dependant on Lilly and Hisao, never goes out and makes friends, and as time goes by, it becomes even worse.

Lilly's neutral ending is questionable. It's one of those endings where the fault isn't clearly on Hisao. Lilly behaved like a pussy in an important situation, and she got what she deserved - a broken relationship, a bad memory and a sad confused boy back in Japan. Bad, but not heart-wrecking.

Shizune's endings are both awful in terms of "happiness", but the "bad" one is special. She basically breaks down like Hanako, accepting the fact that she lost her best (girl)friend, that she behaved like an asshole to her, that she turned down a boy that was so genuinely interested in her he learned a new language just to talk to her. Let's forget about the Misha on Hisao hot action, because the main cause of Misha's nervous breakdown was Shizune herself.
And her "good" ending soulds like it's a "neutral" ending with any other girl by terms of relationship development.

So, rating them from worst to acceptable, it goes like this:
Hanako Neutral > Rin Neutral > Shizune Bad > Hanako Bad > Lilly Neutral > Rin Bad > Emi Bad > Shizune Neutral

[Mirage_GSM]

Hanako's neutral one is much worse. I see this one as a Hanako crushing down to the lowest level she can be on. She gets used to being treated as a porcelain doll, gets even more dependant on Lilly and Hisao, never goes out and makes friends, and as time goes by, it becomes even worse.

Wow, that's quite a negative outlook on things...
I see it as Hisao and Hanako just staying friends. Hanako's still spending time with someone other than Lilly and can proceed to make other friends later - especially once Lilly has left for Scotland.

[Blanc]

Hmm, for me it's Rin END 2 and 3.

"The World Only You Can See" was just a painful scene for both Rin and Hisao. It was just full of regrets and sadness. Rin thinking Hisao to understand her point of views, and that he would not be like those who wanted her to be this. Hisao, thinking he could change things but he was late to do so. The realizations of sadness, their goodbyes to each other and how even though it was painful but it was made to be memorable for both of them. Hisao's arrhythmia doesn't appear here but it lefts him heartbroken.

"Proof Of Existence", would be my second pick though. While it feels like a good ending, I do really think this was a bad end though. This ending puts Hisao in a position where he had thrown away his future aside, the memento of his arrhythmia appearing, he ending doubting so many things in life. While this one takes Hisao accepting the path he had chosen, I do really think that he is the one who would suffer choosing the path in the end.

*You shouldn't have chosen this path in the first place anyway.

Kenji The Deep End was a deserving Bad End since it tells you that you have no reason to see life anymore and it needs to have an end either by a specific manner either rational or not.

Shizune's Bad End was deserving too. Being able to manipulate others to do what you wanted doesn't allow you to abuse others in that manner. And also, not everything you wanted doesn't happen in the manner you wanted it to be.

Lilly's Bad End was both Hisao and Lilly's fault though. Lilly restricting herself on saying the most important things at the certain time, and Hisao being dishonest in the first place makes a bad relationship for the both of them.

Emi's Bad End has Hisao at fault though(well, his forced stupidity). While the bad ending is quite easy to avoid, going to Emi and saying something dickish was wrong in the first place. The second part is not recognizing your faults if you not share and understand what you did before.

Hanako's Neutral and Bad End too, was all Hisao's fault too. I do really think Hanako wants Hisao to spend time with her in the scene where both of you would go to town together, and dismissing it shows that you are not having bonds to her. And, thinking she is someone there to care in the first place wasn't showing that she is like lower than Hisao in the first place. The bad End puts Hanako in a better point since she was able to express what was wrong in the first place and what she wanted.

[Oddball]

I think Shizune's bad ending was actually better for her character than her "good ending" was.

[Atario]

I think Shizune's bad ending was actually better for her character than her "good ending" was.

Really? Could you expand on that?