Mirage_GSM wrote:I loved the realistic way Emi's path played out. He found it unsettling...
I guess that part of what bothered me, besides how her path stirred memories of real arguments, is that at first contact Emi looks cute and vaguely childish; combined with her short stature and ponytails, it all gives her a very loli* feel. In hindsight, there were hints all along – the way she bossed Hisao around from the very beginning was definitely off-character for a loli – but it was quite a shock when this cute little girl, which I assumed could do little more than pout when distressed, started getting back at Hisao's misguided attempts at support with such viciousness. It really brought home the point of how little Hisao – and by extension myself – knew about her true nature.
* I know some people disagree to calling Emi a loli, and for a moment I thought this was a strongly held objection – but since then I've been assured nobody gets worked up the least by her being described like that, and so I'm quite happy to stick to my own opinion.
Most people probably disagree on the basis that it's factually incorrect. "Loli" has a certain meaning and Emi does not fit into that. It's like calling Jigoro a samurai. He's got a sword and samurai usually have swords but he's still no samurai. He might argue that though since he's a bit of a loon.
But I digress. Emi's path was all sorts of unsettling. Hell, most of the paths were...Her bad ending was the first one I got after the picnic with Kenji. There's something severely unsettling about it when just talking to some girl is worse than breaking your neck during a picnic. You did get all the endings, right? Two for Emi, three for Hanako. If not, I suggest going for it. They hurt like hell but they add a lot to the characters and overall experience.
Rin's path is fairly disturbing as well...
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..." <Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played." <KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."
Xanatos wrote:Most people probably disagree on the basis that it's factually incorrect.
Only that "loli" is not a physical measurement unit, nor can it otherwise be unambiguously defined. You seem to think of the term as relating strictly to age, and that may well have been its origins – but ultimately a word "means" what people use it for, and in this case as in many others actual usage is much more diverse. Make a search for "loli definition" on Google and this is the kind of account you may get:
How do we define a loli? Is it by age? Height? Breast size? Each person seems to have their own subjective opinion. For some, age is the only defining factor. Others take a more liberal approach and go by appearance alone. If she looks like a loli, she is a loli, no matter if she’s 14 or 40 (I’m looking at you, Tsukuyomi Komoe). As I said once, even if you’re not a loli, you can still dress like one.*
Or take a look on Sankaku Complex (extremelyNot Safe For Work) – you'll see they have a very nuanced view to what a loli is.
Xanatos wrote:You did get all the endings, right?
No I didn't, nor do I plan to. I play games for my own amusement, not the other way around.
Xanatos wrote:But I digress. Emi's path was all sorts of unsettling. Hell, most of the paths were...Her bad ending was the first one I got after the picnic with Kenji. There's something severely unsettling about it when just talking to some girl is worse than breaking your neck during a picnic. You did get all the endings, right? Two for Emi, three for Hanako. If not, I suggest going for it. They hurt like hell but they add a lot to the characters and overall experience.
Rin's path is fairly disturbing as well...
Yeah, that is something that isn't often discussed (that i haven't seen, at least), just how dark most of the stories are. Granted i still haven't played Lilly or Shizune's routes but in the three routes i've played until now, there was a sizable part of pretty dark elements in each of them. And yeah, Emi's bad ending was pretty unsettling for me too (specially because it reminds me of something similar i lived throught) But i find it's easily more unsettling than the Act1 bad end, since i spent most of the latter rolling my eyes at Hisao and his blue-balls influenced tragedy.
Rin's route is likely the most disturbing by far, if only on a fridge logic sense rather than any overt presentation. It was certainly the darkest one i've played so far.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos
Xanatos wrote:Most people probably disagree on the basis that it's factually incorrect.
Only that "loli" is not a physical measurement unit, nor can it otherwise be unambiguously defined. You seem to think of the term as relating strictly to age, and that may well have been its origins – but ultimately a word "means" what people use it for, and in this case as in many others actual usage is much more diverse. Make a search for "loli definition" on Google and this is the kind of account you may get:
How do we define a loli? Is it by age? Height? Breast size? Each person seems to have their own subjective opinion. For some, age is the only defining factor. Others take a more liberal approach and go by appearance alone. If she looks like a loli, she is a loli, no matter if she’s 14 or 40 (I’m looking at you, Tsukuyomi Komoe). As I said once, even if you’re not a loli, you can still dress like one.*
Or take a look on Sankaku Complex (extremelyNot Safe For Work) – you'll see they have a very nuanced view to what a loli is.
Xanatos wrote:You did get all the endings, right?
No I didn't, nor do I plan to. I play games for my own amusement, not the other way around.
Correction: A word means what people who know what the word is use it for
How do we define a loli? Is it by age? Height? Breast size? Each person seems to have their own subjective opinion. For some, age is the only defining factor. Others take a more liberal approach and go by appearance alone. If she looks like a loli, she is a loli, no matter if she’s 14 or 40 (I’m looking at you, Tsukuyomi Komoe).
You cannot define it by age. At all. I've seen far too many series trot out characters and go, "it's okay to sexualize this character. She only looks (and possibly acts) like an 8 year old. She's really a 400 year old space princess/fairy/angel/robot. The point is they want a pre-teen character without all that pesky "underaged" stuff that goes along with it.
As I said once, even if you’re not a loli, you can still dress like one. *
I have a Spider-man costume in my closet. Does wearing that make me Spider-man?
inquisitivenegro wrote:Correction: A word means what people who know what the word is use it for
Yes. That's why, say, "gay" continues to mean "cheerful" and nothing else, "bead" is still strictly a synonym to "pray", and "samurai" is a servant to a Daimiyo – regardless of whether they have martial training or not – and is not widely used in any other context (e.g. there is no soccer team called "blue samurai" or the like).
Actually, no. All those words changed meaning over time, owing to people who didn't "know what the word is", and the people who did know couldn't do much to avoid it.
Oddball wrote:I have a Spider-man costume in my closet. Does wearing that make me Spider-man?
No – as much as you wouldn't be a shark if you dressed like one. But in those cases the term is more specific – "Spider-man" is the name of a fictional character, "shark" refers to any number of cartilaginous fish species – while "loli" is more general and harder to ground. I'm certain that, say, you couldn't call yourself a "loli" if you dressed in fashion reminiscent of young girls' clothes; I wouldn't be so sure in the case of a petite woman who did the same.
Xanatos wrote:Most people probably disagree on the basis that it's factually incorrect.
Only that "loli" is not a physical measurement unit, nor can it otherwise be unambiguously defined. You seem to think of the term as relating strictly to age, and that may well have been its origins – but ultimately a word "means" what people use it for, and in this case as in many others actual usage is much more diverse. Make a search for "loli definition" on Google and this is the kind of account you may get:
How do we define a loli? Is it by age? Height? Breast size? Each person seems to have their own subjective opinion. For some, age is the only defining factor. Others take a more liberal approach and go by appearance alone. If she looks like a loli, she is a loli, no matter if she’s 14 or 40 (I’m looking at you, Tsukuyomi Komoe). As I said once, even if you’re not a loli, you can still dress like one.*
Physical age is the defining factor. If they're technically 40 years old but physically 10, that's still 10. Emi, however, is not 10.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..." <Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played." <KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."
Xanatos wrote:Most people probably disagree on the basis that it's factually incorrect.
Only that "loli" is not a physical measurement unit, nor can it otherwise be unambiguously defined. You seem to think of the term as relating strictly to age, and that may well have been its origins – but ultimately a word "means" what people use it for, and in this case as in many others actual usage is much more diverse. Make a search for "loli definition" on Google and this is the kind of account you may get:
How do we define a loli? Is it by age? Height? Breast size? Each person seems to have their own subjective opinion. For some, age is the only defining factor. Others take a more liberal approach and go by appearance alone. If she looks like a loli, she is a loli, no matter if she’s 14 or 40 (I’m looking at you, Tsukuyomi Komoe). As I said once, even if you’re not a loli, you can still dress like one.*
Physical age is the defining factor. If they're technically 40 years old but physically 10, that's still 10. Emi, however, is not 10.
I think what xperroni is getting at is a "loli" is a female character who is either young, or looks younger than they really are (in Emi's case she does not look 19, she looks closer to 16 or so)
Steinherz wrote:I think what xperroni is getting at is a "loli" is a female character who is either young, or looks younger than they really are (in Emi's case she does not look 19, she looks closer to 16 or so)
More or less. What I'm trying to say is that a sizable part of the people who use the word "loli" take it to mean a female with looks reminiscent of a young girl – either in actual physical traits (short stature, small breasts) or fashion, and regardless of actual age. Weekend philologists can huff and puff and call it "factually incorrect" all they want, but still can't stop them (us) from using it like that. And anyway this is nothing new, words tend to aggregate new meanings over time and this is just one case among many.
