Dream wrote:Curious, i seem to be the only person i've met who didn't try to "take care" of Hanako nor did that thought even cross his mind. What attracted me to Hanako at first was that she was mysterious in a way, and i had the impression that she had an interesting personality. Her shyness was rather frustrating at times but that made the few times when she does take action (the park, after the birthday party, end of Act 2, etc.) Much more meaningful/valuable and precious. That and her honesty and eagerness made her one of my favorite characters in the VN.
Same here.
Ah, so i wasn't the only one, that's great to hear . I was just curious because of how often i heard about Hanako not being fragile, that being a common mistake and how the idea that she isn't a hopelessly broken person who needs help was such a plot twist (for lack of a better term) If it was rare among KS players to not having been surprised at her not being a doll.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos
Guest Poster wrote:You'll be missing out on certain aspects of the girls that you don't get to see if you strictly play through the good routes. Try to see it as getting to know the characters just a little bit better.
You can also see it as Hisao fucking up so you don't have to.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos
I don't think of it so much as a plot twist. It's just for me and perhaps a few others, seeing her being mistreated by Shizune and ignored by most of the class made us want to help her (and her obvious fear of people seeing her scars), though that doesn't imply I saw her as an object to help, just as one doesn't find a female a trophy simply because they find them attractive. I just had those feelings ignited from her, and no one else really ignited that feeling. The beauty of hearing she is strong and independent wasn't from it being "surprising" but rather because it was relieving and reassuring. It made me like her all the more to hear it from her own lips at the very end, for prior to that, it was simply suggested by Lilly.
I'm not sure that Hanako is mysterious so much as she is evasive. I mean, she isn't tough to figure out since there isn't much to her (that is given within the story, even Hisao remarks about this at the end) and the reasoning for her evasive behavior is immediately apparent. Aside from that, I'm not sure how it could be gathered she had an interesting personality at first glance (not to say that seems uninteresting at first glance, my point is a first glace with her gives practically nothing).
Dream wrote:Curious, i seem to be the only person i've met who didn't try to "take care" of Hanako nor did that thought even cross his mind. What attracted me to Hanako at first was that she was mysterious in a way, and i had the impression that she had an interesting personality. Her shyness was rather frustrating at times but that made the few times when she does take action (the park, after the birthday party, end of Act 2, etc.) Much more meaningful/valuable and precious. That and her honesty and eagerness made her one of my favorite characters in the VN.
Same here.
Ah, so i wasn't the only one, that's great to hear . I was just curious because of how often i heard about Hanako not being fragile, that being a common mistake and how the idea that she isn't a hopelessly broken person who needs help was such a plot twist (for lack of a better term) If it was rare among KS players to not having been surprised at her not being a doll.
Most of the characters are all subversions of cliches. There's no real plot twist involved in the subversions either so I don't understand the surprise many seem to have. And I didn't like Hanako because she was some broken doll. I liked her because she's moe as fuck and behind that crippling shyness, there's a personality worth digging up. I'd have preferred if I hadn't identified with her as strongly as I did though because it's depressing as hell.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..." <Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played." <KeiichiO>: "That's a beautiful response to chocolate."
It's funny that, after getting all the good endings on my first try, I didn't shy away from seeing the bad/neutral ones right afterwards. I dunno - I'd say it's merely a matter of detachment and remembering this forum's tagline, as someone else aptly put it.
But I have to admit that it wasn't until *after* I went through all of them, and saw exactly how they played out, that one in particular stood out, which I am honestly still reluctant to do. And having read a bit of this forum, I see plenty of other people having their own bad/neutral ending that they really detest. I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with that, but I would say that it's wise to examine why exactly one has trouble with going through that one particular bad/neutral ending. If you stop and think about it, you just might learn a lot about yourself - or at least I certainly did.
Of course then there's the fear of doing *any* bad/neutral ending at all, which is yeah...okay. A bit much.
@Denoeuement: Ah, well, that i admit i can relate to that, i held some sympathy and interest for Hanako when i saw that most of the class ignored her, and i was a little mad at Shizune when she kept glaring at Hanako in a scene of Act 1, i think the first time Hisao notes she walked away at the mention of group-work and no one said anything is when i started being interested in her. I can't say i relate to feeling "relieved" when i heard from her that she is strong, however. It's just not something i put much thought into when i played her route. And yeah, i doubt she is intentionally mysterious, but rather that sense of mysteriousness is unintentionally caused by her evasiveness, however, i can't think of any moment in her route where Hisao remarks there isn't much to her or that she isn't hard to figure out, then again i haven't played the route in a long time. And yeah aside from the evasiveness there is nothing very eye-catching about her at a first glance, almost no one has such a thing after all.
@Xanatos: I wasn't aware they were all subversions of cliches, since i don't play many videogames, VNs or animes i'm not really aware of the cliches in the first place. I would say that Hanako attracted me more for being beautiful rather than moe, though. Then again, i don't really know what moe is. I do agree with you that there is something worth looking for under her crippling shyness (and possibly other mental/emotional problems) though. About her route being deppressing... I'm not so sure about that, at the very least it wasn't much more deppressing than my life on a daily basis so i probably developed a tolerance to that kind of stuff. However, i feel that most of the deppressive moments or elements in the route served to not only set a tone that helped propel up and make the sweet moments (specially the good ending) more meaning or with more of an impact, but it also served as a contrast and a sign of development both in the themes and characters of the route. So i guess Hanako's route is like Madora Magika in that regard, but with way less murder.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
"Unfortunately, if you can think of something really stupid, someone out there probably believes it." -Xanatos
Denouement wrote:I don't think of it so much as a plot twist. It's just for me and perhaps a few others, seeing her being mistreated by Shizune and ignored by most of the class made us want to help her (and her obvious fear of people seeing her scars), though that doesn't imply I saw her as an object to help, just as one doesn't find a female a trophy simply because they find them attractive. I just had those feelings ignited from her, and no one else really ignited that feeling. The beauty of hearing she is strong and independent wasn't from it being "surprising" but rather because it was relieving and reassuring. It made me like her all the more to hear it from her own lips at the very end, for prior to that, it was simply suggested by Lilly.
I'm not sure that Hanako is mysterious so much as she is evasive. I mean, she isn't tough to figure out since there isn't much to her (that is given within the story, even Hisao remarks about this at the end) and the reasoning for her evasive behavior is immediately apparent. Aside from that, I'm not sure how it could be gathered she had an interesting personality at first glance (not to say that seems uninteresting at first glance, my point is a first glace with her gives practically nothing).
I think evasive is a very good description of Hanako. It's not so much that her personality itself is mysterious...once you get past the shyness, she's actually a lot more straight-forward and everyday than Lilly. It's just she's very wary of showing any aspects of herself to those in whose presence she's not comfortable.
I'm not sure if I'd call her strong and independant though. Resilient...sure. She's faced crap that would make lesser people step out of life and managed to keep going. But she's not particularly strong or independant...Hisao notes on several occasions that outside of her small comfort zone, Hanako barely functions. The subversion is that ordinary "protect me"-characters are flattered by a protective attitude and adopt the "I feel so safe with you"-attitude. Hanako may not be strong and independant, but she sure as hell would like to be and is insulted by overprotectiveness that suggests the status quo is in any way alright. Hanako has a sense of hope that many others of her character type lack.
Haha, I can't bring myself to get Hanako's bad ending. I've seen it though, it's some terrifying stuff xD
It's weird how things work. You'll never know how much something can mean to you until ages afterwards, when you don't need it as much and can stand on your own. But you look back, and realise how much that thing meant to you then. In a sense, the fictional characters I relied on before are why I'm here now.
Hanako = Misha > Lilly > Emi > Rin > Shizune
SkyraScarletXVII wrote:Haha, I can't bring myself to get Hanako's bad ending. I've seen it though, it's some terrifying stuff xD
It seemed to end pretty quickly though. I'd forgotten that I got her bad ending, simply because of how short it felt.
It wasn't a long bad ending by any account, just a very emotional one, I think xD
It's weird how things work. You'll never know how much something can mean to you until ages afterwards, when you don't need it as much and can stand on your own. But you look back, and realise how much that thing meant to you then. In a sense, the fictional characters I relied on before are why I'm here now.
Hanako = Misha > Lilly > Emi > Rin > Shizune
Loonie wrote:Of course then there's the fear of doing *any* bad/neutral ending at all, which is yeah...okay. A bit much.
Well I suppose I deserve that. Though its really from just having gotten along with all of them very well, but I guess you're right, some of them I'd probably have much less issue with than others. Also it doesn't help that I am still sitting in some residual feels, think I could start doing them soon though no problem.
It is very interesting to hear that Rin's neutral/bad ending is good, I may just have to start with that.
Loonie wrote:Of course then there's the fear of doing *any* bad/neutral ending at all, which is yeah...okay. A bit much.
Well I suppose I deserve that. Though its really from just having gotten along with all of them very well, but I guess you're right, some of them I'd probably have much less issue with than others. Also it doesn't help that I am still sitting in some residual feels, think I could start doing them soon though no problem.
It is very interesting to hear that Rin's neutral/bad ending is good, I may just have to start with that.
You mean how heart-crushing it can be if you caught what Sae's been implying that could happen to Rin in the future?
Yep, it's good alright. It's all good...
They say they hate Shizune? What is this? BLASPHEMY!
SHII-HAEL! Shizune>Rin>Emi>Hanako>Lilly "A writer is a light that reveals the world of his story from darkness. Shapes it from nothingness. If the writer stops, the world dies with it." - Alan Wake
Yes, I write stories. Currently working on: The Haunting: A Love Story
I'm unwilling to go through them more due to laziness than it affecting me conciously but yea i don't really feel like getting a bad ending. Especially for Rin. She deserves something man.
Loonie wrote:Of course then there's the fear of doing *any* bad/neutral ending at all, which is yeah...okay. A bit much.
Well I suppose I deserve that. Though its really from just having gotten along with all of them very well, but I guess you're right, some of them I'd probably have much less issue with than others. Also it doesn't help that I am still sitting in some residual feels, think I could start doing them soon though no problem.
It is very interesting to hear that Rin's neutral/bad ending is good, I may just have to start with that.
You mean how heart-crushing it can be if you caught what Sae's been implying that could happen to Rin in the future?
Yep, it's good alright. It's all good...
That's not what I meant by good. >_< And you're not helping me do her bad ending, bah.
yummines wrote:I'm unwilling to go through them more due to laziness than it affecting me conciously but yea i don't really feel like getting a bad ending. Especially for Rin. She deserves something man.
Couldn't agree more, in fact all of this is how I am at the moment with Katawa Shoujo.
The bad ends, sad as they may be, are still part of the experience, so yeah, I did them as well. I finished them last, though. Except in Rin's case, where I accidentally triggered both her bad and neutral endings first.
. I was just curious because of how often i heard about Hanako not being fragile, that being a common mistake and how the idea that she isn't a hopelessly broken person who needs help was such a plot twist (for lack of a better term) If it was rare among KS players to not having been surprised at her not being a doll.
I'd have preferred if I hadn't identified with her as strongly as I did though because it's depressing as hell.
Though its really from just having gotten along with all of them very well, but I guess you're right, some of them I'd probably have much less issue with than others. Also it doesn't help that I am still sitting in some residual feels, think I could start doing them soon though no problem.
