Katawa Shoujo Forums

I find myself wondering exactly what's wrong with me, especially in light of wondering just the same in a similar position one year ago. Far be it from me to seek semi-psychological help from so niche a forum as this, but...in this case, the problem is more pertinent to KS than anything else, so here I am.

Last August, I played Emi's route, and my natural inclinations led me to her bad ending. Well, just that much pained me deeply. A bit of introspection showed that you have to be outright hypocritical to get that ending; to pry into Emi's problems whilst brushing off Misha's attempt to do the same for you. And what did that make me? The implication was that I wanted my skin to be something of a one-sided mirror—through which no one can look in, but I can look out. I wanted normal relationships with other people, but wouldn't let anyone else have one with me (which defeats any relationships you'd have to begin with). That's another way of phrasing the hedgehog's dilemma, isn't it? Although, that problem seems to be one common to all hedgehogs and humans playing at being hedgehogs; my problem seems to be nothing but a personal failing

That was a year ago. Yesterday, I finally got around to playing Hanako's route, completely blind to its flowchart but vaguely aware through some vague spoiler that there was some sort of parallel to Emi's route—which became evident in Act 2. In each route there's a tragic past hidden behind a compulsive need to keep it hidden. In each route there's the question of why the player needs to know more about that past, and how it should (and shouldn't!) affect the player's relationship with the girl hiding it.

But that was only in a nook in the back of my mind. Every other part of my mind was intent on sending me hurtling toward Hanako's bad ending, just as it had for Emi a year ago.

It's sodding plain as day in retrospect. Hanako is even wearing her street clothes—she very clearly isn't content to "call it a day." Goddamn it. Who the bloody hell gave me the right to decide that there was nothing better for Hanako than to send her off to her room to stew in her own depression?—and who gave me half a mind to think for a second that this was anything close to what Hanako wanted? I mean, she's wearing her fucking street clothes.

I don't get it. Really, this isn't even about KS, and is only symptomatic/emblematic of deeper problems, but I'm posting it here because no one but a KS player would understand much of anything in the last few paragraphs. I s'pose I want a fresh perspective I don't really know anymore.

Maybe it's because on some level some of us make decisions as if it's a game (which it is), forgetting that it's a fairly realistic game and that to a large extent the girls have behaviours you'd find in real life (complex, messy, requiring human insight to fathom). The 'it's only a game' thing at the back of our minds is what doesn't quite work in KS. Maybe that's why KS affects many of us so much.

I, personally, think nothing's wrong with you in this respect.

I almost just walked back, but I was goal-oriented to get Hanako out of her shell, and knew walking into town would help.

I also think certain routes are more likely to screw you in terms of the ending. Without referring to a tree, I think Emi has about a 33% straight-up success rate, similar to Rin and Shizune in that respect. Hanako has a big 50% success rate, and Lilly has ~12.5% success rate. However, realistically speaking, the people likely to go after Hanako are more likely to fall into the 50% failure rate category, ditto Shizune. Also, speaking from simple logic, I think that this is accurate. We don't know Hisao's previous romantic antics, but my parents said they had 5-7 serious relationships before meeting each other, and this rate is generally accurate to most people I meet. (Note: I live in America, so the number probably changes in other countries.)

Also, I'd like to see a poll on this forum on how many people actually get a bad end on their first play through of a girl. I can guarantee each one of us has failed a route at one point or another without a tree to help, even if we didn't play though to the ending. You're no different from the majority of the population who've played this game, and those who haven't would probably have a similar experience. So, to answer your question, nothing's wrong with you, we just don't talk about our failures very often. I'll start the trend in that case: I failed Shizune route the first time through. It wasn't even a "mistake" unlike most others, my lust just got the better of me. After the H-Scene finished, I went back to a save and made the "Right" choice. (I personally would've made the wrong choice IRL, but W/E)

I made 'bad ending' choices in

Shizune: How the hell can you just turn away somebody (Misha) in that much pain?

and

Hanako: She's an introvert, so she'll want to be alone, right? D'Oh! That bit after the club about how she wants to be there for Hisao -- completely spaced.

P.S. -- if you play randomly, the Emi route has a 62.5% chance of a good ending -- if you mess up you get second chances. I think, going from memory.

Broomhead wrote:I failed Shizune route the first time through. It wasn't even a "mistake" unlike most others, my lust just got the better of me.

Haha, I think that's the first time I've seen someone admit that, finally. I suspect a not-insignificant percentage of people retroactively blame Hisao on this one because it sounds less culpable of themselves.

As for my own bad-end/good-end track record, I think I did get all the good ends before their matching bad ones, but then again I got Manly Picnic my first two attempts.

Always better to do this kind of errors in a game than in real life, right ?

Hmm, strange, I actually have done all the good endings on first tries, except for Shizune, because I liked Misha far too much not to decide to comfort her. Comforting wasn't what I expected it to be, but I won't be complaining, although it did make me a bit sad that Misha doesn't have a real route and a good ending ;_; I found her character much nicer and more likeable than Shizune.

Liminaut wrote:I made 'bad ending' choices in

Shizune: How the hell can you just turn away somebody (Misha) in that much pain?

and

Hanako: She's an introvert, so she'll want to be alone, right? D'Oh! That bit after the club about how she wants to be there for Hisao -- completely spaced.

P.S. -- if you play randomly, the Emi route has a 62.5% chance of a good ending -- if you mess up you get second chances. I think, going from memory.

Um...Isn't the only other option in Shizune's route to be a cheating dick? Not exactly saintly to go along with that either...

Charmant wrote:

Liminaut wrote:I made 'bad ending' choices in

Shizune: How the hell can you just turn away somebody (Misha) in that much pain?

and

Hanako: She's an introvert, so she'll want to be alone, right? D'Oh! That bit after the club about how she wants to be there for Hisao -- completely spaced.

P.S. -- if you play randomly, the Emi route has a 62.5% chance of a good ending -- if you mess up you get second chances. I think, going from memory.

Um...Isn't the only other option in Shizune's route to be a cheating dick? Not exactly saintly to go along with that either...

Well, first of all, I didn't quite think 'comfort' was equal to 'have sex with', and would rather expect Hisao to hug her or say something (even if she acted in strange way).
Secondly though, Misha > Shizune so even if it said 'fuck her' or 'refuse' I would go for Misha :3 Way too cute.

Bluegaze wrote:

Charmant wrote:

Liminaut wrote:I made 'bad ending' choices in

Shizune: How the hell can you just turn away somebody (Misha) in that much pain?

and

Hanako: She's an introvert, so she'll want to be alone, right? D'Oh! That bit after the club about how she wants to be there for Hisao -- completely spaced.

P.S. -- if you play randomly, the Emi route has a 62.5% chance of a good ending -- if you mess up you get second chances. I think, going from memory.

Um...Isn't the only other option in Shizune's route to be a cheating dick? Not exactly saintly to go along with that either...

Well, first of all, I didn't quite think 'comfort' was equal to 'have sex with', and would rather expect Hisao to hug her or say something (even if she acted in strange way).
Secondly though, Misha > Shizune so even if it said 'fuck her' or 'refuse' I would go for Misha :3 Way too cute.

It does everything it can to telegraph that she's asking for sex without using the exact word. How could you not expect that? Shizune is cuter though, mostly because silence > obnoxious loudness all the time. XD And now the Misha mob cometh.

Charmant wrote:

Liminaut wrote:I made 'bad ending' choices in

Shizune: How the hell can you just turn away somebody (Misha) in that much pain?

and

Hanako: She's an introvert, so she'll want to be alone, right? D'Oh! That bit after the club about how she wants to be there for Hisao -- completely spaced.

P.S. -- if you play randomly, the Emi route has a 62.5% chance of a good ending -- if you mess up you get second chances. I think, going from memory.

Um...Isn't the only other option in Shizune's route to be a cheating dick? Not exactly saintly to go along with that either...

Yes. You're stuck with what kind of dick you want to be with your dick.

Charmant wrote:
It does everything it can to telegraph that she's asking for sex without using the exact word. How could you not expect that? Shizune is cuter though, mostly because silence > obnoxious loudness all the time. XD And now the Misha mob cometh.

Yeah I did realize what she's asking for, just thought Hisao could handle it in a different way, even if he agrees.

As for cuteness, I guess it's to each his own. For me it's the other way around.

I can't say I remember the decision about "calling it a day" in Hanako's route and I'd like a refresher on it. Do you happen to know which library scene it was that had that decision in it?

Anyways, I honestly don't think anything is wrong with you. Despite having not gotten a bad end on Emi's, Lilly's and Hanako's routes on the first playthroughs, I struggled heavily with making the right choices. I think Brythain hit the nail on the head with the whole "It's just a game" point. I certainly didn't play that way though because I got so immersed and into Hanako that I actually felt I fucked up big time if she got hurt in anyway. Also considering that Hanako was my first route, I became much more conscious about my decision making in Emi's and Lilly's routes.

If it wasn't obvious yet, I haven't played through Rin's nor Shizune's routes and I get the feeling that those routes are the ones that will get me to break my "No Bad End on first playthrough" streak. Rin's in particular, scares me just based on what I've heard of it. I'm almost tempted to take notes whenever I decide to finally playthrough their routes because I've heard terrible things about Rin's Bad End(s).

The absolute hardest decision I ever had so far was the one with "Trusting my own judgment" or "Agree with Lilly" in the "Faraway Presence" scene. THAT one stumped me for hours while I weighed what facts I remembered but I still managed to come to the correct conclusion to get the good end.

jaxter0987 wrote:I can't say I remember the decision about "calling it a day" in Hanako's route and I'd like a refresher on it. Do you happen to know which library scene it was that had that decision

It wasn't in one of the library scenes, it was after bringing Lilly to the airport. There you're given the option to either spend the rest of the afternoon with Hanako in the city, or to call it a day and take her back to the girls' dorm. If you're anything like me, you probably didn't choose this on your first play through, so you may not have ever gotten the actual bad ending on Hanako's route, only the neutral one.

The absolute hardest decision I ever had so far was the one with "Trusting my own judgment" or "Agree with Lilly" in the "Faraway Presence" scene. THAT one stumped me for hours while I weighed what facts I remembered but I still managed to come to the correct conclusion to get the good end.

That's definitely one of the toughest choices in the entire game! I remember choosing "trusting my own judgement" and getting the neutral end, except I didn't know there were such things as neutral ends at that time. So I was afraid that that was it, that Hisao and Hanako were only going to be chess partners from then on. What a relief when I found there was more to the story!

But tough as that question was to answer, just brace yourself for the horrors that await you in Rin's route..

Never not trust lilly.

And Rin's choices are either easy, or make no difference to the story.
You just have to understand what the heck shes on about before the choices appear.