Yamaku Book Club (20220124 Dish Washing)

[brythain]

Hmm. Fardels' unusual Prelude was apparently a sound mythopoeic riff, which occasioned discussion of the raven totem and such. I enjoyed the piece because of its interesting and original meta approach, and those are rarely done well around here, although some have succeeded.

In particular, Fardels' Prelude is very different compared to the other well-crafted works you'll find in the Library by the same author. The difference is that the others are more conventional narratives, although written in the same beautiful prose. Perhaps some future session may see a discussion of those works.

The next reading will be:
Going The Distance — by Guestdude

Warning: this was one of the pieces that inspired me to write a particular scene in AtD, and you'll know which one.
This is... errm... literally a pretty short piece (ow, sorry), so I'll just give a short lead-in?
Next meeting: Saturday 18th April-Sunday 19th April

Thanks, everyone—and if you've still got comments on Prelude, do feel free to make them before the next meeting!

[brythain]

Hi everyone, meeting is open!

Current book is:
Going The Distance — by Guestdude

As always, all are welcome to the discussion!

Thank you for hints and suggestions for — such things are always welcome.

[Alpacalypse]

Certainly an interesting little fic.
I liked it.
Made me a little depressed, but the hopeful ending was a nice touch not gonna quit that easily, are we, Hisao?

[dewelar]

Sorry I missed the last session, but here goes.

This was decent. I think I've become a bit numb to KS fanfics that are based around death, because there are so many, although I realize this is a fairly early one. I did like the interplay of Hisao and Spirit-Emi, but the rest of it was just kind of there for me. Asking me to connect to characters just because they're connected to existing ones is just cheap heat.

One point I did like was the flipped expectation of Hisao being the centenarian, although I also have noticed that when Hisao outlives his partner in a story, more often than not it's Emi. KS fans do love irony, don't we?

[Fardels]

Dewelar brings up a very interesting point... When we write futures about KS characters, we expect readers to connect our futures folks with the characters of the canon. If we're smart about it, we work to make those connections. It's fairly easy to do that with futures that occur just after Yamaku - for later years, it's harder. Too much has happened that has nothing to do with the canon. I also wonder if there isn't a certain fatigue factor in the readership - that might result not responding to new stories as easily as before. Dewelar is dead right (heh) about the number of stories that deal with the dirt nap, including mine, but it's hard to reach people using the frets we all live with - the car needs new tires, allergies are terrible this year, and so forth. As story ideas, sex and death seem to be big players.

I read this when it first hit the board and thought very highly of it. I still do. For me, it would be a fairly powerful story if it was about, say, "Fred and Nora" - the connection with the KS characters made it more so. For me, Guestdude made enough connections to make it work, but that's just me. I think it also says something about the value of life for some as it spins into the last quarter mile - I've seen Hisao-like reactions for real.

[Mirage_GSM]

Yes, this is a story I aslways kind of liked - though it does not really tell a story.

It paints a picture of future Hisao, but nothing really happens except for one or two really short flashbacks.

It still manages to be entertaining, though, and that's all that should be expected.

[brythain]

Dewelar is dead right (heh) about the number of stories that deal with the dirt nap, including mine, but it's hard to reach people using the frets we all live with - the car needs new tires, allergies are terrible this year, and so forth. As story ideas, sex and death seem to be big players.

I think it's because love (and its physical manifestation, sex) is the grand sacrifice of autonomous self to the ideal of sharing; death is the grand sacrifice of autonomous self to nothing (that we can understand). But as this story shows, there are minor gambits that make the game worthwhile: the bodhisattva ideal of remaining on to watch the board clear, or help others complete their game when you could just let go, the spending of time with people when you could be doing something else. And sometimes, as with so many slice-of-life works, just the pleasure of hanging around to play.

It's not for nothing that they call sex the 'little death', of course. But it's also the 'little life' and the 'little love' and many other things beside—a microcosm of human existence all in one. What I like is that, sometimes, the Hanako who is a taxi driver. or the Misha who has an unexpected job, can also bring our hearts into the mundane rough-and-tumble of despairing or joyous existence. It's the little bits that Hisao and Emi enthuse about in the latter part of this piece—the hippie who joins the army, the boy who scores a goal at the World Cup—that make the heavy hitters seem worthwhile.

[Leaty]

I'm... not into this fic at all.

I was a CNA at a nursing home for a while, and, I assure you, centenarians are boring. I hate "old person epilogue" fics, and I hate old person endings—they're always really glurgy and never done right. And, really, that's all this fic is: Grandkid Glurge.

I think one of the things that bothers me most about this fic is that it embraces the cliché that any elderly people in any era, will act like and use the idiomatic language of today's elderly. Most writers don't seem to realize that when they're as old as their grandparents are now, they're not going to be them, because, as a matter of fact, being born during the Great Depression and being born during the Reagan presidency results in starkly different people! It's not like, as soon as you become sufficiently wizened, you tap into the Astral Geezer Essence and become an Avatar of Oldness. Just as young adults from different eras are different, so are the elderly. Nobody from this generation is going to someday start using the word "grandchiddlers."

Also, like, this Hisao is practically unrecognizable. Like, even with eighty-two years of distance, I can't fathom a linear progression from Emi-ending Hisao to... whatever this is. He's just, like I said, replaced with a stereotype.

This was decent. I think I've become a bit numb to KS fanfics that are based around death, because there are so many

Aha, but there really aren't! We do have a plethora of old person death fics, but Death fics (big 'D'), in the traditional sense it's used in larger fanfiction circles, are actually in short supply in this fandom. A proper Death fic would, in my opinion, have to take place relatively close to the time during which the VN takes place—and there really aren't many of those. Griffon wrote that Kenji death fic, but never continued it... There are two Iwanako one-shots where Hisao dies in the prologue... that's all I can really think of, off the top of my head, unless you want to count the Rika Bad End. High school students reacting to a death would so much more interesting than what we typically see.

[Mirage_GSM]

I think one of the things that bothers me most about this fic is that it embraces the cliché that any elderly people in any era, will act like and use the idiomatic language of today's elderly...

Well, yes, but what bothered me a lot more than the idioms was that the world of 2087 seems to be exactly the same as it is today, despite the fact that artificial hearts should hardly be a problem by then. When I resigned myself to accept that as "not really important for the story" I could hardly object to some strange idioms...

[dewelar]

This was decent. I think I've become a bit numb to KS fanfics that are based around death, because there are so many

Aha, but there really aren't! We do have a plethora of old person death fics, but Death fics (big 'D'), in the traditional sense it's used in larger fanfiction circles, are actually in short supply in this fandom. A proper Death fic would, in my opinion, have to take place relatively close to the time during which the VN takes place—and there really aren't many of those.

Well, that part's true enough. Mind you, it's not the kind of thing I generally like to read, but (especially considering Megumeru's recent post in the headcanon thread) there are a lot fewer than there should be given the subject matter.

Griffon wrote that Kenji death fic, but never continued it... There are two Iwanako one-shots where Hisao dies in the epilogue... that's all I can really think of, off the top of my head, unless you want to count the Rika Bad End. High school students reacting to a death would so much more interesting than what we typically see.

Speaking of Megumeru, there's The Haunting: A Love Story, where the events are triggered by Shizune's death. Also, After the Dream has a few deaths sprinkled in (Saki's occurs either during high school or shortly thereafter, IIRC). But yeah, I can't think of that many.

[brythain]

A proper Death fic would, in my opinion, have to take place relatively close to the time during which the VN takes place—and there really aren't many of those.

Well, that part's true enough. Mind you, it's not the kind of thing I generally like to read, but (especially considering Megumeru's recent post in the headcanon thread) there are a lot fewer than there should be given the subject matter.

Griffon wrote that Kenji death fic, but never continued it... There are two Iwanako one-shots where Hisao dies in the epilogue... that's all I can really think of, off the top of my head, unless you want to count the Rika Bad End. High school students reacting to a death would so much more interesting than what we typically see.

... But yeah, I can't think of that many.

There are a few [here] — numbers 3, 6, 11 and 17 I think. I'm a bit off the 'high school students reacting to a death' thing because it's become increasingly common in the media; I would feel I was just riffing off a sad, bad, mad news cycle. In After The Dream, it's true that there are a few early deaths, as mentioned. AtD-Kenji is like that because of one happening in the background, and there's the other one later on.

[Mirage_GSM]

Few more here.

[bhtooefr]

To be honest, this didn't really do much for me, for whatever reason. I didn't really feel attachment with the characters - too heavy on the OC, without enough building them up, maybe?

[HipsterJoe]

First thought after finishing was "Damn Emi, won't even let a guy die peacefully in his sleep?"

I actually found the end of this story depressing. He wakes up with a new outlook on life, but the reality is that he's still a 100 year old man with all the health concerns that entails. I can just imagine the good mood being erased as he runs into the limits of his failing health, and Hisao sinking into a deeper depression. Of course, it is some 80-something years in the future, maybe functional immortality is right around the corner (Although functional immortality at the age of 100 seems like a whole other depressing). Honestly though I enjoyed the story more when I thought it was going to end with him going on one last run with Emi after a long and fruitful life.

[Solistor]

I have no really profound thoughts on this one (not that it stopped me before) so this is going to be real short. It made me smile. I thought it was a cute take on Elder Hisao, without getting too silly and keeping the actual story and message rather grounded. I'm with HipsterJoe on this, I would have liked it a lot more if the last run was the ending. Alas, we get Hisao continuing to live years and years after he realistically should have.

Also I thought the character references in the Nakai family tree were cute.