Katawa Shoujo Forums

Why does it seem like a lot of the problems that (most of) the main 5 girls have are caused by a less than stellar past involving their parents?

Just something I noticed while reminiscing about all the routes. 4 of the 5 of the main cast seem to have issues directly relating to their parents (or lack thereof) and the other one doesn't seem to mention her parents at all.

Emi:
Most of Emi's problems seem to somehow relate to her runner dad dying. She was very close to him, he died and now she doesn't want people getting close to her.

Lilly:
Lilly's parents leave Lilly and Akira in Japan and don't really talk much for 6 years. Although Lilly says she does not resent them, she doesn't say that she approves of them either. That and the biggest problem in Lilly's route is her leaving to go live with her parents.

Hanako:
Her parents died in a fire which left her with scars. You could argue that both the scars and her parents death have caused her 'condition'.

Shizune:
I can't remember exactly but I'm fairly sure her mother is dead. And her father is not the most ... supportive of parents. He makes no effort to learn sign language and seems like a generally aggressive and stubborn person.


Why is it that quite a few problems seem to involve a character's parents? Is it just because it made for good reading?

It just seems like none of them are able to have a normal relationship with their parents, which is sad.

ewx wrote:It just seems like none of them are able to have a normal relationship with their parents, which is sad.

It's not sad, it's true.
It's very common for kids to have issues with their parents. Add on the fact that with the disabilities causing more issues with their relationship (Lilly and Shizune) and it's no wonder they have parental issues.

P.S: Jigoro is an asshole. Also, it's not stated if Mayoi (Shizune's mother) is dead or not. Just not around.

Parental issues (WARNING: TVTropes link!) are an extremely common storytelling device. So much so that it's generally considered more notable when the parents are well-adjusted, rational, and, you know, alive.

Emi seems to be the only one with a decent releationship with her parent, and even then, her mom seems to have a hard time trying to understand her daughter.

But yeah, poor parenting seems to be at the heart of a lot ofthe characters problems. Just like in the real world.

Steinherz wrote:
P.S: Jigoro is an asshole. Also, it's not stated if Mayoi (Shizune's mother) is dead or not. Just not around.

If he wasn't Shizune would be an entirely different character. She really seems to take after her dad (a statement that would probably please neither of them.)

The real question is how is Rin's relationship. I remember the Art teacher saying they took good care of her, so I assume she's the only girl with a good relationship with her parents (her and Emi.)

ZXNova wrote:The real question is how is Rin's relationship. I remember the Art teacher saying they took good care of her, so I assume she's the only girl with a good relationship with her parents (her and Emi.)

What he says is that they've been "supportive". Now, that could mean any number of things, especially given that this is Nomiya talking. Also, "supportive" doesn't seem to include "came to their own daughter's gallery opening", so there's a fair amount of shade being thrown on them in-game as well. The best I would venture to say about their relationship is "distant".

Lilly's problems aren't caused by her parents so much as a culture that basically demands she obey them at any cost (and in the bad end, Hisao's inability to stand up for anything).

Hanako's issues are much more a result of her peers than her parents. The loss of them is brought up far less than the reactions of those around her.

And Shizune's problems are entirely her own. "B-But Jigoro never learned sign language!" - Yeah, and she never picked up a pen and pad either.

The only one with issues explicitly tied to parents is Emi, really.

pandaphil wrote:Emi seems to be the only one with a decent releationship with her parent, and even then, her mom seems to have a hard time trying to understand her daughter.

And Emi's line about having lost everything once before gives you a pause even if it is possible that she didn't think through the implications.

dewelar wrote:

ZXNova wrote:The real question is how is Rin's relationship. I remember the Art teacher saying they took good care of her, so I assume she's the only girl with a good relationship with her parents (her and Emi.)

What he says is that they've been "supportive". Now, that could mean any number of things, especially given that this is Nomiya talking. Also, "supportive" doesn't seem to include "came to their own daughter's gallery opening", so there's a fair amount of shade being thrown on them in-game as well. The best I would venture to say about their relationship is "distant".

'distant' kinda describes all relationships Rin has.

Steinherz wrote:It's not sad, it's true.
It's very common for kids to have issues with their parents. Add on the fact that with the disabilities causing more issues with their relationship (Lilly and Shizune) and it's no wonder they have parental issues.

P.S: Jigoro is an asshole. Also, it's not stated if Mayoi (Shizune's mother) is dead or not. Just not around.

Do the majority of people in real life have parent related problems?
Suddenly I feel really lucky for having normal parents.

While having a child with a disability can't be anything you'd wish for or something to look for, wouldn't having a disabled child make the parents want to be closer to their child and get them the best possible future? Maybe this is just making me realise that I'm a bit idealistic.

ProfAllister wrote:Parental issues (WARNING: TVTropes link!) are an extremely common storytelling device. So much so that it's generally considered more notable when the parents are well-adjusted, rational, and, you know, alive.

I know most stories seem to have at least one parent missing, dead or dying but I just felt like we should have been exploring more about the girls specifically, instead of the problems in their life caused by other people. I'm not saying that those issues should be completely glossed over but the parents thing seems to take centre stage in most routes.

Xanatos wrote:Lilly's problems aren't caused by her parents so much as a culture that basically demands she obey them at any cost (and in the bad end, Hisao's inability to stand up for anything).

Hanako's issues are much more a result of her peers than her parents. The loss of them is brought up far less than the reactions of those around her.

And Shizune's problems are entirely her own. "B-But Jigoro never learned sign language!" - Yeah, and she never picked up a pen and pad either.

The only one with issues explicitly tied to parents is Emi, really.

I cannot say I'm an expert on Japanese culture but are kids really expected to obey their parents at all costs?
That seems a bit harsh.

Her problem with birthdays seems to be entirely the result of losing her parents though and I can't help but think that she doesn't just forget about that for the rest of the year until it comes round again.

Doesn't she write notes to Hisao at some point in the game?
I can't help but feel that Jigoro's stubbornness caused Shizune to effectively copy most of his traits (i.e. stubborn, competitive) as some lomd of coping or defensive mechanism against her father.


PS: Yeah, Jigoro is a major asshole.

ewx wrote: Her problem with birthdays seems to be entirely the result of losing her parents though and I can't help but think that she doesn't just forget about that for the rest of the year until it comes round again.

I'd argue that that's part of it, the main reason is everyone tries to make her feel extra special on that one day and the pitying she hates so much intensifies. I believe she outright says she hides in her room so she won't be a bother to other people.

ewx wrote:Do the majority of people in real life have parent related problems?
Suddenly I feel really lucky for having normal parents.

Having "normal" (read: good) parents is a very good thing, and something you shouldn't take for granted. I think, statistically, the standard nuclear family is no longer the majority. I'd like to imagine it's still the plurality, but I don't really have numbers for that sort of statement.

While having a child with a disability can't be anything you'd wish for or something to look for, wouldn't having a disabled child make the parents want to be closer to their child and get them the best possible future? Maybe this is just making me realise that I'm a bit idealistic.

Having a child with a disability is a real challenge. Like any other sort of challenge, it breaks some, and makes others stronger. There's no one reaction to that sort of situation. So some families come out better for it, some come out worse, and some come out roughly equal.

I know most stories seem to have at least one parent missing, dead or dying but I just felt like we should have been exploring more about the girls specifically, instead of the problems in their life caused by other people. I'm not saying that those issues should be completely glossed over but the parents thing seems to take centre stage in most routes.

But the girls don't live in a vacuum. People are not the products of their surroundings, but they are influenced by them. It's kind of like that early reading exercise - the girl is an unfamiliar word, and her friends, family, experiences are the rest of the sentence. They provide context so you can get some understanding of the unfamiliar word. Hell, the neex to observe the context was a key point in (one branch of) Emi's route.

I cannot say I'm an expert on Japanese culture but are kids really expected to obey their parents at all costs?
That seems a bit harsh.

Not harsh. Un-American. Perhaps I'd go so far as "Un-Western," but that could sidetrack us into a whole discussion on the differences between Western Civilisation and Oriental Civilisation, including their respective development through the ages. But, culturally, extreme deference to the parents (particularly the father) is a near-universal imperative.

Her problem with birthdays seems to be entirely the result of losing her parents though and I can't help but think that she doesn't just forget about that for the rest of the year until it comes round again.

That her parents died on or near her birthday is entirely fanon. It is made abundantly clear that she dislikes the experience of being treated as special one day a year and ignored (and/or reviled) the other 364.

Doesn't she write notes to Hisao at some point in the game?
I can't help but feel that Jigoro's stubbornness caused Shizune to effectively copy most of his traits (i.e. stubborn, competitive) as some lomd of coping or defensive mechanism against her father.

PS: Yeah, Jigoro is a major asshole.

Shizune does write notes, after much effort to avoid doing so. She dislikes it, and for good reason. Try it sometime. You'll probably get annoyed and frustrated quickly even if you cheat and allow others to talk to you. Using a pen and paper to talk is bad enough; using it to talk and listen is torture.

As for Shizune and Jigoro's relationship, I could write quite an essay on that one. I don't really have the time or inclination to do that right now, so I'll leave you with Jigoro's own defense:

Jigoro wrote:Who do you think you are to assume that my life is so easy? You haven't even read my biography, yet you are able to tell me how I should handle all my affairs, including dealing with my own daughter. You could never understand. Even if I were to get up from this couch, walk over to you right now, and punch you in the forehead with brass knuckles with a condensed edition of my life story on them, leaving my biography imprinted in your face, you would not understand. For twelve years, Shizune did not even talk to me, even though I hired multiple tutors and interpreters of all sorts for her to try and get her to become normal. It isn't as simple as you think it is. If she does not want to bother with me, then fine. I assume that is normal. When was the last time you talked to your parents?”

If you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that "become normal" was just an imprudent word choice, is it really that indefensible?

I cannot say I'm an expert on Japanese culture but are kids really expected to obey their parents at all costs?
That seems a bit harsh.

Japan is an extremely hierarchic society where every person has (and should know) his or her place. This hierarchy basically extends everywhere and people are taught from an early age that authority figures should be deferred to and that questioning authority (even gently) is a sign of deep disrespect. The idea that people are equals regardless of social standing or age is a typically western one. That said, Japan changes too across generations. Lilly probably simply had a rather traditional upbringing.

Her problem with birthdays seems to be entirely the result of losing her parents though and I can't help but think that she doesn't just forget about that for the rest of the year until it comes round again.

Her dislike of her birthday and her parents' deaths have nothing to do with each other.

ProfAllister wrote:

I know most stories seem to have at least one parent missing, dead or dying but I just felt like we should have been exploring more about the girls specifically, instead of the problems in their life caused by other people. I'm not saying that those issues should be completely glossed over but the parents thing seems to take centre stage in most routes.

But the girls don't live in a vacuum. People are not the products of their surroundings, but they are influenced by them. It's kind of like that early reading exercise - the girl is an unfamiliar word, and her friends, family, experiences are the rest of the sentence. They provide context so you can get some understanding of the unfamiliar word. Hell, the need to observe the context was a key point in (one branch of) Emi's route.

That her parents died on or near her birthday is entirely fanon. It is made abundantly clear that she dislikes the experience of being treated as special one day a year and ignored (and/or reviled) the other 364.


Shizune does write notes, after much effort to avoid doing so. She dislikes it, and for good reason. Try it sometime. You'll probably get annoyed and frustrated quickly even if you cheat and allow others to talk to you. Using a pen and paper to talk is bad enough; using it to talk and listen is torture.

As for Shizune and Jigoro's relationship, I could write quite an essay on that one. I don't really have the time or inclination to do that right now, so I'll leave you with Jigoro's own defense:

Jigoro wrote:Who do you think you are to assume that my life is so easy? You haven't even read my biography, yet you are able to tell me how I should handle all my affairs, including dealing with my own daughter. You could never understand. Even if I were to get up from this couch, walk over to you right now, and punch you in the forehead with brass knuckles with a condensed edition of my life story on them, leaving my biography imprinted in your face, you would not understand. For twelve years, Shizune did not even talk to me, even though I hired multiple tutors and interpreters of all sorts for her to try and get her to become normal. It isn't as simple as you think it is. If she does not want to bother with me, then fine. I assume that is normal. When was the last time you talked to your parents?”

If you're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that "become normal" was just an imprudent word choice, is it really that indefensible?

I know it's impossible to live with parents and not somehow be influenced by them it's just that I can't understand how it seems to be their whole life. If you took away the issue of her father dying, we don't really see any character flaws from Emi. If you take away her parents migrating to Scotland, Lilly is a normal girl.
At least with Shizune she actually has some notable character flaws (stubbornness, ridiculously competitive etc.) that are explored in the game but other than that Lilly and Emi don't seem to display any flaws of any kind.


I seem to be reading too much fan fiction... if that is possible. That and I haven't read through that route in a while and have a critically bad memory.


I'm rather patient and quite laconic in real life. Communicating by notes would not bother me, but I can understand how Shizune would be angry.
In defence of her though, why does Jigoro expect his deaf daughter to suddenly speak to him when his only effort in speaking to her is through writing notes? He's obviously quite rich so I imagine getting taught sign language professionally would not be difficult except for his stubbornness. In that quoted speech he makes it very clear that his effort to communicate with her is entirely her responsibility as he is getting tutors for her to communicate with him, not for himself to communicate with her.