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So...the difference between brushing Misha off politely and brushing Misha off sarcastically is the difference between your choice of two girls (who aren't Misha) and death

It makes sense that the "fun fun fun" option blocks off lunch with Shizune and therefore the Shizune route, but why the Emi route? You even go to lunch with her that day -- and Hisao says that Emi's sunny disposition alleviates the negative feeling of his fight with Misha/Shizune. Lunch + Emi route and no lunch + Kenji ending would make so much more sense than lunch + Kenji ending.

If you had good terms with Shizune ("I don't want to talk about it.") You're not ignoring Shizune, which gives you the option to have lunch with either of them, forking their paths. Speaking sarcastically would leave you with no one to really talk to at the festival, because you simply went and had lunch with Emi because you "had to." Not by choice. You killed your chances with Shizune obviously, and you simply didn't get to have a chance with Emi. You didn't get a chance with Emi because you didn't decide for yourself that you really wanted to go or not. You didn't get that chance because you didn't have another choice to choose from (have lunch with Shizune). You also didn't build up a relationship with the other three girls, so you don't have a chance with them either. The way the path goes, you have to choose either Emi or Shizune. You blew it, you get manliness. Another way to think of it is that being sarcastic would be a Kenji-like comment, so the Kenji-like, ignorant, rude, isolating kind of comments would get you manliness. Like on "Mind your step" (I don't want to talk about it.) - Isolating, Ungrateful. "Home Field Advantage" (Kick 'em out.) - Rude, Ungrateful. "Creative Pain" (I'm stuck with her, I guess.) - Condescending, Rude, Ignorant.

- I may have over thought that.

You probably did ^^°

TMCT wrote:Lunch + Emi route...would make so much more sense

What exactly makes sense about "I begrudgingly had lunch with this girl so we should totally date!"?

Xanatos wrote:

TMCT wrote:Lunch + Emi route...would make so much more sense

What exactly makes sense about "I begrudgingly had lunch with this girl so we should totally date!"?

I agree! -- it makes little sense. The problem is, I'm not seeing the "begrudging" part. The lunch scene with Emi is (as far as I can tell) word-for-word the same no matter how you respond to Misha. I don't think there's any difference in the paths until you're "not really feeling energetic" the day before the festival and go to sleep instead of coincidentally bumping into Emi. Which is a tenuous connection.

And "we should totally date" is an overstatement. Spending time with a girl (that you've already spent time with) at a festival != dating.

ZXNova wrote:You didn't get a chance with Emi because you didn't decide for yourself that you really wanted to go or not. You didn't get that chance because you didn't have another choice to choose from (have lunch with Shizune).

Phrased like this, though, I can get behind that explanation. Being given a choice invests you in the results of the choice (kinda like how I didn't feel for the majority of Shizune's path )

TMCT wrote:And "we should totally date" is an overstatement. Spending time with a girl (that you've already spent time with) at a festival != dating.

You said lunch + Emi's route. Guess what Emi's route consists of? Lemons and anal and oh god don't lemons make your lips pucker I wonder if they do the same to assholes but assholes are already puckered so maybe her asshole will implode into non-existence. Dating Emi.

The difference is essentially the following:

"I want to have lunch with Emi."

"I've got nothing else to do, might as well have lunch with Emi."

One is a willing choice. The other is more a resignation.

Xanatos wrote:

TMCT wrote:And "we should totally date" is an overstatement. Spending time with a girl (that you've already spent time with) at a festival != dating.

You said lunch + Emi's route. Guess what Emi's route consists of? Lemons and anal and oh god don't lemons make your lips pucker I wonder if they do the same to assholes but assholes are already puckered so maybe her asshole will implode into non-existence. Dating Emi.

I suppose I meant "lunch + getting to Emi's route in Act 1."

Xanatos wrote:The difference is essentially the following:

"I want to have lunch with Emi."

"I've got nothing else to do, might as well have lunch with Emi."

One is a willing choice. The other is more a resignation.

Yeah, between this and what Nova said, that's a really solid explanation. I didn't think of it that way. My problem now (and part of the reason I didn't think of it that way before this thread) is that it's not reflected in the script. In both cases Hisao says "Normally, I'd join the flow and grab a lunch myself, but today is different. Today, I've been invited to lunch on the roof." The entire scene is exactly the same (I think); there's no feedback for your actions as a player.

And I don't understand why nothing else changes (again, I think) until the arbitrary decision the next day to go back to his dorm instead of...going back to his dorm slightly more slowly.

Granted, it's a lot to expect for any VN to rewrite entire scenes from scratch based on a very obscure and hard-to-reach dialogue choice.

TMCT wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

TMCT wrote:And "we should totally date" is an overstatement. Spending time with a girl (that you've already spent time with) at a festival != dating.

You said lunch + Emi's route. Guess what Emi's route consists of? Lemons and anal and oh god don't lemons make your lips pucker I wonder if they do the same to assholes but assholes are already puckered so maybe her asshole will implode into non-existence. Dating Emi.

I suppose I meant "lunch + getting to Emi's route in Act 1."

Xanatos wrote:The difference is essentially the following:

"I want to have lunch with Emi."

"I've got nothing else to do, might as well have lunch with Emi."

One is a willing choice. The other is more a resignation.

Yeah, between this and what Nova said, that's a really solid explanation. I didn't think of it that way. My problem now (and part of the reason I didn't think of it that way before this thread) is that it's not reflected in the script. In both cases Hisao says "Normally, I'd join the flow and grab a lunch myself, but today is different. Today, I've been invited to lunch on the roof." The entire scene is exactly the same (I think); there's no feedback for your actions as a player.

And I don't understand why nothing else changes (again, I think) until the arbitrary decision the next day to go back to his dorm instead of...going back to his dorm slightly more slowly.

Granted, it's a lot to expect for any VN to rewrite entire scenes from scratch based on a very obscure and hard-to-reach dialogue choice.

Sounds like multiverse theory now. Variables and constants...

I think the reason is one of the following:
a) The devs thought that being mean to Misha should result in karmic punishment in the form of a bad end or
b) They thought "Let's put a trap there that leads to the bad end LOL"

Xanatos wrote:Sounds like multiverse theory now. Variables and constants...

That's actually the reason the Science Club is formed in Emi's route.

Well in other parts of Act 1, where you may have lunch with Rin/Emi, The reason why nothing bad happens after that is because you have a chance with another girl (i.e. Hanako, Lilly, Rin) So when you were invited and had lunch, you actually go because you want to, and you could have went and been by yourself. (Though, I think Hisao said he had nothing else better to do.) Since you have someone else you have a chance with, when the festival comes you have someone to look for. In the "Slow Recovery" scenario, your only chances are Emi and Shizune, you don't have Rin, Lilly, or Hanako in mind, so you fail there, you die. This also seems to be the case with similar scenarios such as Creative Pain, your only choice is Rin at that point, and if you say something that ruins your chances or doesn't show interest in that girl ("I'm just stuck with her" doesn't sound like you're interested) you get no path, so you die. "Date or Die?", that is the question.

I just thought of:
c) "Let's not make this more complicated than it already is: Trigger one bad flag to go to the bad end. Basta."

I know, the "slow recovery" options confused me also. My first thought was 1) I can be in denial about the heart condition or 2) I can be open and honest, including honest bitterness.

On consideration, in this school bitterness about a disability is going to go down like a rock. Everybody has pretty brutal problems and nobody wants to hear somebody else complain. There's a real and understandable culture of stoicism at work. This is why the "fun fun fun" option loses Emi. As we pick options we are also defining Hisao's character, and there is no way Emi is going to want to hang out with a whiner.

Well, you can be sarcastic without being bitter. That's why Hisao's actual reaction after that choice surprised me as well.
It could have just as well been something like. "Yeah, I had lots of fun at the nurse's office - so can you think of any other fun things to do in the afternoon?"