Katawa Shoujo Forums

Huh. I guess I'll have to play through Hanako's route again, apparently I misunderstand this part of her character.

Thing is, I also have trust issues, and I have admitted to my oldest friend that I sometimes suspect he only tolerates me (to which he responded "that's stupid", but I still sometimes feel that way). I feel like I know what these sorts of feelings are like, and I still don't think it's the same as genuine antipathy.

muliebrity wrote:Huh. I guess I'll have to play through Hanako's route again, apparently I misunderstand this part of her character.

Thing is, I also have trust issues, and I have admitted to my oldest friend that I sometimes suspect he only tolerates me (to which he responded "that's stupid", but I still sometimes feel that way). I feel like I know what these sorts of feelings are like, and I still don't think it's the same as genuine antipathy.

Trust issues aren't the same as antipathy. Hanako, however, has both of these things.

I kinda suspect Lilly has problems of her own, perhaps with lonliness or abandonment issues with her family. She needs to nurture, and maybe even baby Hanako a bit just to feel needed by someone. So I really can't be mad at her.

I do hope its something they both sit down and address someday.

YZQ wrote:In that case, something is being lost along the way. We know Lily and Hanako aren't friends for very long, but I would have expect Hanako to pick up the fact that Lily appreciates honesty, and tell her own side of the story. If you are truly okay about being alone, why not lay the cards on the table, and clear up expectations, even if that may drive Lily away?

Hanako is used to being alone and is okay with being alone, but she would still prefer to have a person or two she could be friends with and just hang out together.

Her relationship with Lilly is a clash between hope and experience. She would like to have a real friend, but her past has told her time and time again that nobody really likes her. They're only going to hang around until they get bored with her.

She could confront Lilly, but she already knows deep down that if she told Lilly to stop babying her, Lilly would just leave, so instead, she's just going to go along with it and enjoy what she has while she has it. It's better to have one person that acts like your friend even if they don't mean it than to have no friends at all.

Plus she doesn't want to kill that extremely small sliver of hope that Lilly might actually be a real friend that actually does care about her.

Oddball wrote:

YZQ wrote:In that case, something is being lost along the way. We know Lily and Hanako aren't friends for very long, but I would have expect Hanako to pick up the fact that Lily appreciates honesty, and tell her own side of the story. If you are truly okay about being alone, why not lay the cards on the table, and clear up expectations, even if that may drive Lily away?

Hanako is used to being alone and is okay with being alone, but she would still prefer to have a person or two she could be friends with and just hang out together.

Her relationship with Lilly is a clash between hope and experience. She would like to have a real friend, but her past has told her time and time again that nobody really likes her. They're only going to hang around until they get bored with her.

She could confront Lilly, but she already knows deep down that if she told Lilly to stop babying her, Lilly would just leave, so instead, she's just going to go along with it and enjoy what she has while she has it. It's better to have one person that acts like your friend even if they don't mean it than to have no friends at all.

Plus she doesn't want to kill that extremely small sliver of hope that Lilly might actually be a real friend that actually does care about her.

How is it that I disagree with a lot of this? Lilly isn't just some overbearing, motherly person that wants everything her way or else. She doesn't strike me as someone that's easy to drive away, unless you would constantly ignore her advice or pity her and feel sorry for her. I think that's made clear in her own route. Try to give Lilly the "pitying, babying" treatment that one would give Hanako, and that would be your ass. I'm not a Lillybro though so that doesn't really affect me too much. I'd be too busy spending time with Hanako, giving her lots of tender loving care, because I'd be truly interested in her and would show it in so many ways.

People that don't care don't stick around and try to help someone for long. It's as simple as that. You either get an empathetic person that cares, or an apathetic person that doesn't give two shits and keeps on walking.

Besides, I'm down with the Sisterhood continuity as part of Hanako's canon... so in my mind, Lilly sticks around and everything is ballin'.

Worth remembering that in Sisterhood, Hanako and Lily had to thrash things out before their relationship got better.

YZQ wrote:Worth remembering that in Sisterhood, Hanako and Lily had to thrash things out before their relationship got better.

Hey, better than assuming she just eventually leaves as if nothing mattered, right? Somehow I think even Shizune wouldn't do something like that. Actually, outside of Hanako and Lilly, Shizune is the one I like most.

I can imagine how all the Lillybros got owned though, if they didn't get her good ending first. I did, and without help too cause I'm boss like that.

Man, back on track to Hanako... she's really precious, smart, more kind and caring than people give her credit for... she really is adorable and lovable.

Honesty with Lily. That's all you need for her Good Ending.

Yep, and I'm an honest and open person naturally. So it was no problem for me.

There were times I got engrossed, but truthfully, sometimes I just couldn't stop thinking about Hanako. I was happy to finish Lilly's route and get back to my Hanako runs.

I did like the scene after the credits thing though. I wish Hanako had one. Maybe of she and Hisao singing karaoke together or something.

How is it that I disagree with a lot of this? Lilly isn't just some overbearing, motherly person that wants everything her way or else. She doesn't strike me as someone that's easy to drive away, unless you would constantly ignore her advice or pity her and feel sorry for her. I think that's made clear in her own route. Try to give Lilly the "pitying, babying" treatment that one would give Hanako, and that would be your ass. I'm not a Lillybro though so that doesn't really affect me too much. I'd be too busy spending time with Hanako, giving her lots of tender loving care, because I'd be truly interested in her and would show it in so many ways.

People that don't care don't stick around and try to help someone for long. It's as simple as that. You either get an empathetic person that cares, or an apathetic person that doesn't give two shits and keeps on walking.

Besides, I'm down with the Sisterhood continuity as part of Hanako's canon... so in my mind, Lilly sticks around and everything is ballin'.

I think you're misinterpreting Oddball's post. The way he describes things isn't how Lilly "sees" things, but certainly how Hanako used to see things. Of course Lilly wouldn't just up and walk away if Hanako had told her she was unhappy about their friendship but Hanako used to be convinced that that's what would have happened.

Worth remembering that in Sisterhood, Hanako and Lily had to thrash things out before their relationship got better.

This. If you want to pretend Sisterhood's events are canon, this automatically means you acknowledge what Oddball said about the underlying instability in Lilly's and Hanako's friendship...because Hanako's unspoken insecurities about their friendship (and Lilly's ignorance of the existence of those insecurities) are the most important factors behind the conflict between them in that story.

Yeah man, I'm tired... a few things will go over my head.

Honestly, it all could have fallen apart so easily just from a lack of everyone communicating their feelings.

But really, in both stories, Lilly and Hisao approach Hanako at the worst possible time. When shes feeling stressed, and vulnerable. I think at a time like that she would have turned on anyone who consider her a friend.

A few concepts I'm still not clear on and have been struggling with in my fic. Why exactly she becomes depressed and isolates herself on her birthday. I can understand that thats when the accident happens, or she wants to hide to prevent anyone celebrating the day, but why so sudden? It seems like shes fine two days before, is a broken mess for her birthday, and the day before, but then the day after, she seems to be back to her same old self. I'm just not certain what going on in her head to switch her bouts with depression on and off like that like a timer.

Honestly, it all could have fallen apart so easily just from a lack of everyone communicating their feelings.

Neither Hisao nor Hanako are extremely open people by nature and Lilly also has the tendency to keep her own feelings on certain things private.

Why exactly she becomes depressed and isolates herself on her birthday. I can understand that thats when the accident happens, or she wants to hide to prevent anyone selebratign the day, but why so sudden? It seems like shes fine two days before, is a broken mess for her birthday, and the day before, but then the day after, she seems to be back to her same old self. I'm just not certain what going on in her head to switch her bouts with depression on and off like that like a timer.

Actually, her birthday and her accident aren't related. It's possible Hanako didn't start disliking her birthday until some time after she left the hospital.

Imagine that for the entire year people either bullied you, shunned you or ignored you...whatever it'd take to indicate they really didn't care about you. Then for that one day of the year, people would suddenly pretend they're happy for you, pretend you matter to them. To Hanako, that day just became something that rubbed salt in her wounds. She knew all that attention was fake. But she still got it whether she liked it or not. So she adopted the habit of shutting herself in her room on that day.

Guest Poster wrote:
Imagine that for the entire year people either bullied you, shunned you or ignored you...whatever it'd take to indicate they really didn't care about you. Then for that one day of the year, people would suddenly pretend they're happy for you, pretend you matter to them. To Hanako, that day just became something that rubbed salt in her wounds. She knew all that attention was fake. But she still got it whether she liked it or not. So she adopted the habit of shutting herself in her room on that day.

Thanks for that. So then is she honestly suffering a bout of depression, or simply hiding to avoid people?


Sorry if these are dumb questions, I just want to understand her before I start to write about her seriously.

Oh, I totally agree that Lily and Hanako's relationship need an open discussion from both of them. True friends can discuss uncomfortable truths and come out stronger. Also, Lily acknowledged herself that Hanako may see her as too cuddling, but she knows where she stands: she truly sees Hanako as a friend.

@panda: Could be both. Darn hard to read someone when her mood radically affects how she sees the world.