Katawa Shoujo Forums

I was replaying Lilly's neutral ending.

Again.

And from the conversations about the internet and their inability to work it, I realised something. My initial reaction was like,"Learn to use it, fools! Learn to use it and you will be fine!" But after some quick thoughts I come to realise that I only say this because I am relatively much more well-versed in cyberspace than Hisao or Lilly. It also dawned on me that maybe, maybe, because they have each other, that's why they don't get driven into such niche aspects of life. Only people who don't have any sustainable social lives would dwell on the internet for so long as to know how to use it to set up a long-distance relationship. It's ironic, that because they didn't need to delve into virtual escapism, that they would not have the means to continue their relationship via the virtual world. On the other hand, what use is it for anyone to know so much about internet communications but not have any use for it because there is noone to relate to.

Is this "fair"?

First thing. Internet might be for Lily even more alien thing. Using computer by Braille bar, or text-to-speech synthetizer is still problematic and needs help of a computer-literate seeing person, and though some websites are designed having those in mind, most of the net is hard to navigate this way. With image left over, it is a different medium.

And the whole idea of long-distance relationship is sometimes hard to swallow. Much depend on the overall future outlooks, but a highly indefinite time, long distance, expensive travel, uncertain future works deteriorately. There are some people dealing with it. Most relationship like this falls apart. On this path Lily decided not to try it.

Long-distance relationships are brutally difficult, even with the assistance of the Internet, and I say this as somebody who actually made it through such a relationship to marry my high-school sweetheart. It's not fair to hold it against people who try and fail, or even people who look at the idea and decide not to try, because it's just that hard.

Also, Internet accessibility for the visually-impaired is still problematic. It's not actually all that hard to implement the basics in a Website -enough that browsers, screen readers, and other devices can figure out what they need to do pretty easily- but many Web developers still Just Don't Do It, and that doesn't even count all the legacy content out there. This means that screen-reader software still has to also try and make sense of all the crap -Braille terminals take a completely different approach that manages to be both better and worse at the same time, but is certainly simpler to implement- and it ends up being a big mess.

You know an even worse sad fact? Hisao can only be there for one of the 5 girls. Unless you choose Lilly, some things work out.

I don't see how Lilly could use the internet anyway. Even with a braille keyboard, it would be just about impossible without someone assisting her, so I strongly doubt the relationship could work long distance. On the phone, sure but I've heard those rarely work out.

As to your point regarding virtual escapism, you probably have a point, but the majority of people spend a large amount of time communicating through cellphones or the internet now days. It's just the way our culture is headed. It's important to realize that while this game does portray emotions very well, it's not necessarily an accurate portrayal of everyday life. You'd be hard pressed to find people like Hisao and Lilly in real life.

Something like IRC would work well with a screenreader/Braille display, if they wanted to chat.

As people pointed out using the internet could be bothersome to Lilly. Phone bills would be extremely expense. Even with skype, she doesnt seem like the sort who is all to interested in technology. Her hobbies are drinking tea and experiencing connections with people in person. Sound and touch are important for her.

If not for the internet, I'd probably not talk to anyone. I get burned out by dealing with people in person for too long.

You know what, never mind. I have no idea how many people actually got my point. Can I call for a topic lock? This thread has completely missed its point.

newnar wrote:You know what, never mind. I have no idea how many people actually got my point. Can I call for a topic lock? This thread has completely missed its point.

maybe re-word it better?

My thoughts is even if Lily miraculously learns to use the internet while blind, the closeness feeling(The kind where you know a person is close even if you can't see, touch, or hear them)) gets lost. Plus touch is rather important to a blind person, and Lily also has a rather healthy adolescent sex drive.

I think "fair" is a matter of context. For temporary long distance, like a week to a month, Skype can be great. But the odds a relationship works out over the long distance deeper than friendship is really slim as time goes on. Simply because contact reaffirms a relationship, and people have urges.

Relationship hunting is well, possible, but I wouldn't have virtual dates online. Setting up for RL dates would work, but I wouldn't expect a person to be my "forever alone soul mate" across the world.

Does that answer you're question?

Got your point alright, just don't think that internet is only good for people without any further social life.

I think the point was more about how people who use the internet the most (which affords immense possibilities for interactions) tend to be the loneliest. I agree with this to some degree if that was the point.

Being behind a computer feels much safer and I can express my feelings more without fear of someone making fun of me. Even people who try to bully me on the net, I usually laugh and ignore, which is something I couldn't do being bullied in person. I've had friends I met online who live all over the world. I've been friends with these likeminded individuals for years and even had them visit me. (One friend flew all the way from Australia to hang out with me to play games). I had a week long sleep over party with some other friends who lived over a hundred miles away and we wouldn't have met if not for the internet.

This makes it sound like I'm not lonely, but I am incredibly lonely as online connections aren't as fulfilling as in person ones. People are social beings, even ones like me that are shrinking violets who prefer to be alone. It felt wonderful to spend time with those that I connected with most, yet they tend to live far away. I didn't have any friends growing up and I only have a few non net friends.

I have seen studies saying internet use causes depression, but I feel it is the opposite. Heavy net use can be because of depression. Though I'd probably be dead by now if not for the net. I might have been able to handle my hard childhood and teens years better if I had my own computer as I sorely needed any friendly connections, even ones via the web.

micechasekittens wrote:I have seen studies saying internet use causes depression, but I feel it is the opposite. Heavy net use can be because of depression. Though I'd probably be dead by now if not for the net. I might have been able to handle my hard childhood and teens years better if I had my own computer as I sorely needed any friendly connections, even ones via the web.

Yep. It is not the internet which makes us who we are. It is just that we are sad persons and the internet gives us a chance to talk to other people. But still, I know for a fact, that there are people on the internet with fulfilled social life, who use it just for facebook and lolcats. It does not make me jealous, though. I am fine with the opportunities the net gives to me. That my social life is otherwise nonexistent is a whole different topic.

This forum is so beautifully annoying. Just when I was handing myself an ultimatum to leave, glimmers of hope appear.


The inherent discussion, brought about through the catalyst of Lilly's neutral ending, is thus: Are extremely tech-savvy people usually(not always) lacking in real-world social relationships? More importantly, is the opposite true? People who form real, Lilly-like relationships, are they often(once again, not absolute) less informed on the usage of the internet? (Obviously people who work in such industries are exclusions) These are made on the basis that more time spent=more proficient. Then, if both are true, then considering the fact that internet as a powerful tool of communication when in capable hands and that relationships(no matter real/virtual) is built upon communication, isn't it ironic that those who need the tech doesn't know how to use it while those who know how don't have a need for the tech? Or is this some kind of world-balance, "bestow one with one gift and deprive him of another", you-cant-get-the-best-of-everything theory at work? Is it justified then???

This is what I thought could be inferred from my OP.

To those who replied things such as Lilly can't Skype or long-dist relationship doesn't work for Hisao X Lilly, I'm not trying to offend anyone, maybe you guys replied too rashly(which is sth I am guilty of too), but that wasn't the kind of discussion I was hoping for.

EDIT: I missed 2 buses while typing all that through my phone's pathetic virtual keyboard. Damn.

Can't see it in your OP. You're getting too rin for us.

Anyway, spending time online doesn't have to teach you anything. You can grind in WoW-like game, or any other, or spend your time watching porn and demotivators, it doesn't improve your computer-fu much. What you do online counts. And while there are people substituting all relationships with sitting online, it's the highlighted minority.

I don't subscribe to the "OMG Internet kills interhuman relations" club.

newnar wrote:This forum is so beautifully annoying. Just when I was handing myself an ultimatum to leave, glimmers of hope appear.

What for? There is nothing inherently wrong with socialising with more or less likeminded people. That's how clubs are started.

newnar wrote:Are extremely tech-savvy people usually(not always) lacking in real-world social relationships?

Often enough for sure. It is probably true that a certain mindset both makes communication with actual people difficult and all things technical easy.

newnar wrote:isn't it ironic that those who need the tech doesn't know how to use it while those who know how don't have a need for the tech?

That is not the case. The people that can start real life relationships easily do not need the tech that much, they already have got enough opportunities as it is. And even if they do need the tech, they won't have that many problems with it because the industry is catering to them, making the tech easy to use. Case in point - cell phones, social networks and so on. Most of these applications are dumbed down so non-technical people are able to use them, because they are the majority. We nerds do need the tech the most. Because we cannot function well without.

newnar wrote:Or is this some kind of world-balance, "bestow one with one gift and deprive him of another", you-cant-get-the-best-of-everything theory at work? Is it justified then???

I don't think so. If you are lucky, you can get both.

newnar wrote:EDIT: I missed 2 buses while typing all that through my phone's pathetic virtual keyboard. Damn.

Welcome to the club. I hate typing on a touchscreen with passion.