Katawa Shoujo Forums

Tualha wrote: Hmm, just occurred to me - Rin will have to stay all summer to make up the classes she missed. And Hisao won't leave her. Maybe he'll take some extra credit classes for his future science career.

Not likely. Seeing as how its only in Emi's path that our friendly neighborhood protagonist seems to really go for it and take care of his own business. All the others, especially Rins, he seems to just kind of drift along in a haze of apathry/fear/blind stupidity. Probably why I liked emi's the best, oh well.

zanzarra wrote:Didn't imply that, just had a little grin about the "all adults are evil" vibes your comment gave off.

hah now that makes sense, I sound like Kenji, here being all cynical, but instead of aiming my guns at those damn feminists! My targets are middle aged men!

Nomiya falls into the old cliche, "If you cannot do, teach." There are people who have seen what their limits are and decided not to try and push those limits but instead take a different path and try to help other people overcome their limits instead.

I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing, and I certainly didn't hate Nomiya as a character. He's incredibly insensitive, and a bit selfish, but he certainly means well; he wants Rin to be successful, and while he is living vicariously through her, his desires for her success are not entirely for his own sake. He thinks that she has a talent and she needs to put it to use.

Her own feelings don't matter; in his mind, people who have talents need to put those talents to use, and if you have talents and don't use them, then in his mind it's almost a sin.

Anubis wrote: Her own feelings don't matter; in his mind, people who have talents need to put those talents to use, and if you have talents and don't use them, then in his mind it's almost a sin.

That's pretty much why I don't like Nomiya, because he selfish beyond command. He never does try to connect to Rin and after you rescue her from the exhibition and Nomiya calls you out of the classroom (That's when I actually began disliking him) as a player, I felt that he was getting all the wrong ideas about her (I shoulda known, he was always getting the wrong ideas about her, and that's why it all exploded in his face after his talk with Rin later. At that point, I was feeling pretty satisfied and at the same time hurt that Rin was actually quite shocked by it.

As an artist who pays his rent on time, I can see where Nomiya is coming from. I've had to deal with artists of Rin's temperament, and it never goes well. In some ways Rin's attitude toward art is not unlike my own mother's. She had the talent, and the drive, but wasn't the kind of people person or extreme personality that could make it in the *ahem* "art world". This...is a problem when you're a widow with 3 kids.

I learned early on from her bad example that reconciling your own means of expression with the mercenary tendencies of an intergalactic bounty hunter was a question of necessity. Almost by definition doing anything else is luxury, and artists will often be short on that. Nomiya wasn't pushing anything on Rin that wasn't already written in the laws of nature: eat to survive, and try to live in-doors. When you have a framework for doing that, you're a terminal fool to actively work against it without an air tight backup plan.

It's easy to hate Nomiya because his motives are suspect. You'll get no argument from me. That doesn't address the substance his position, only his reasons for taking it. Your reputation is your life, in a very physical, literal sense. People don't just buy the work, they buy the artist. An artist is almost like a brand name. Salvidor Dali understood this. We all know who Salvidor Dali is, because he insisted we all know. He refused to remain unknown. Now how many of us know who Rene Magritte is? How many people think Son Of Man was painted by Salvidor Dali? These things may not concern Rin, but understanding them is a life and death matter.

If I were Hisao, I'd wonder if I just attached myself to someone that might take me down with her. What if in a few years he has a heart attack, and Rin has to take care of him? Then what? It's a simple question, but it's one that demands an excellent answer.

Anubis wrote:Her own feelings don't matter

Her feelings DON'T matter. It's just business.

Yeah, it sucks.

Welcome to Rin's life.

Koda89 wrote:I was creeped out by him as well. I actually thought at first with Rin being....well....Rin and the way Nomiya was talking at times, I actually *shudder* thought he was doing something like molesting Rin on the side.

You got that vibe from him too? I too thought he was probably molesting Rin considering the way he looks when he licks his lips. X(

I got a kind of creepy uncle vibe from him too, now that you mention it.

The only problem I got with Nomiya is the fact that he had an outburst in front of Hisao...
Though I think some of that anger might have come from his friend who committed suicide...
But still, yelling at a student can quite easily be lead into a legal situation...

I totally agree with KFKenobi's rant. The "art world" does require connections and a name not just pure talent. Nomiya might be trying to live through Rin a bit but I highly doubt that was his main motivator. His teacher attitude wanted to help Rin open doors to his future. (I actually felt a bit bad during the good end because I robbed Rin's future of going into a good arts college and having connections)

Also because Nomiya doesn't actually approach Rin to understand him, it is obvious that he does not comprehend Rin and tries to do what is best for Rin. But if Nomiya approaches Rin to understand her then that will breach the teacher student relationship a bit. Even if Nomiya tries to understand Rin there is the question of will Rin even open up to Nomiya, cause seriously how many of you actually opened up to an adult nevertheless a teacher when you were in high school? Teachers are not your friends, its actually somewhat illegal! (Even friending your student's on facebook can get you in deep trouble).

Yes, from Hisao's eyes Nomiya is evil, but in reality, he is just doing his job as a teacher maybe a little bit over-zealously due to his past.

I disliked Nomiya, though I could see where he was coming from. Still, the reason I disliked him is that Rin never gave me the impression of wanting to make a living out of her art. We, as players, don't know enough about her marks in school or other talents besides painting. The same as Hisao in the good ending, we begin to understand her as a person, but that doesn't change the fact that we know little about her life. I always got the impression that art was for Rin something she used to try and communicate with the world, not means to earn a living. I thought Rin never intended to become a pro artist, just paint and show the result to whoever wanted to see it.

I'd go as far as to say the idea of going pro is totally alien to Rin. It's not just that she had no intention of doing it, it seems almost beyond what she can reasonably contemplate.

Rin's grades are never mentioned, though it is mentioned once that one of the main reasons Rin attends class on a regular basis at all is because Emi drags her there. But frankly I'd be surprised if Rin was a star pupil. And both Rin's disability as well as her personality make her unsuitable for quite a few jobs. With that in mind, I can somewhat understand Nomiya's dedication to try and get Rin to go pro...in his mind it's probably her safest bet to success.

To some extent it may be simple jealousy. Nomiya himself didn't make it as an artist and chose to teach instead - and in some way I can understand being angry seeing someone letting so much obvious talent go to waste.
He just forgets that even a gifted individual should be allowed to choose her/himself to act on any given talents.

I didn't dislike Nomiya before the end, when he yells at Rin.

I agree with Kenobi's rant, although I hadn't thought of it like that.
And yes, Nomiya's kind of pushy, but it goes with the job. Past the elementary stages, where you can concentrate on technical skills, a teacher has to make sure his students are working at bettering themselves and finding their style, and to achieve that, it's necessary not to let them become comfortable, to challenge them, to make sure they don't take easy shortcuts because 'it worked last time'.

Where I dislike him is that Yamaku is a high-school, not an art university. To teach at such a level, you have to be open to students, even gifted ones, deciding that art is just a hobby and they'd rather pursue another path. Nomiya shouting Rin down at the end could be acceptable in an university, not in high school.

Thrasher Thetic wrote:

Tualha wrote: Hmm, just occurred to me - Rin will have to stay all summer to make up the classes she missed. And Hisao won't leave her. Maybe he'll take some extra credit classes for his future science career.

Not likely. Seeing as how its only in Emi's path that our friendly neighborhood protagonist seems to really go for it and take care of his own business. All the others, especially Rins, he seems to just kind of drift along in a haze of apathry/fear/blind stupidity. Probably why I liked emi's the best, oh well.

It seemed to me that Hisao was even more directed during Lilly's path than any other, even though Emi's arc contains the one-man science club. Just my thought.

On-topic, Nomiya gave me the sort of vicarious living vibe you get from a parent who failed his own football career and wants to push his son, or what have you. He didn't make it, so Rin has to. Well-meaning, perhaps, but misdirected in a potentially dangerous way.