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Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:33 am
by Probably
Am I the only one who found the "'good" end to Rin's path deeply unsatisfying?
She wasn't really that dedicated to becoming an artist; what she really wanted was just to share her feelings with other people and have them understand her, so she wouldn't feel so alone. The only reason she turned to art is that she felt she was bad at doing it with words (also sounds like people used to always dismiss her feelings as being "weird" when she was young, which probably led her down the road of abandoning words as an effective means to communicate.
Even Hisao understands this when he's arguing with the art teacher, but he never tells her this. He even gets her to apologize to the art teacher for some reason when he just told himself exactly why she shouldn't.
It's true that no one can ever truly understand anyone else 100%, but there are tons of things he could've said to her that would've been far more affirming and comforting than what he ends up saying. Hell, he can't even tell her straight that he loves her at the end.
It just feels like Hisao never really "gets" her the way he talks to her, but yet when he's talking to himself in his own mind, he seems to understand her perfectly. He just can't vocalize it for some reason and always ends up saying something hurtful or unhelpful.
I understand the story is Hisao's and not mine, but when he's sort of a representation of the choices you want to make, it's frustrating when he won't say the things I think he should. Most of the other paths are like that to an extent, but he eventually ends up doing the right thing. Never feels that way with the Rin arc.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:43 am
by sporkaganza
I felt just the opposite - it was deeply satisfying. I felt it perfectly encapsulated the themes of Rin's route. I wish I could figure out a way to explain why I feel that way about it and why I disagree with you, but every time I try to lay it out into words I can't manage to describe how I feel. (Which is funny, considering how much of the route was about that.) But I have to go to bed now anyway.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:01 am
by Mirage_GSM
Probably wrote:I understand the story is Hisao's and not mine, but when he's sort of a representation of the choices you want to make, it's frustrating when he won't say the things I think he should. Most of the other paths are like that to an extent, but he eventually ends up doing the right thing. Never feels that way with the Rin arc.
I don't think so. Hisao is a arepresentation of himself. He has his own character and like most high school students his age he doesn't have a degree in psychology nor extensive experience regarding relationships, so he is bound to make mistakes and say less than perfect things.
Besides, not even Aura could write a story where Hisao always says the thing that any of the thousands of people reading KS would want him to say.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:04 am
by Yuno
Unsatisfying?
It was amazingly satisfying. I felt like Rin went through a full change - she realized how precious her own self was.
She wasn't really that dedicated to becoming an artist
I felt the exact opposite. She was totally dedicated to being an artist, but the way she was forced to be creative and forced to do art, as part of some sort of social expectancy for her to push out masterpiece after masterpiece is what ended up destroying her. She actually realized why she did art - because that was her soul, and she was being robbed of her passion when she had the exhibition.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:29 pm
by arisadelle
I feel like it was satisfying but since I just came off Emi's ending I just wanting to give up on Rin and go to Emi. I think to take bigger breaks between getting the endings. I just kept getting too frustrated with Rin and how Hisao kept dealing with it. It was like rubbing sandpaper on my face. I got really emotional and the end just feels like things aren't totally resolved and Hisao will never be able to understand her...so why does he stay with her?
I dunno maybe i'm still shook up from it.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:52 pm
by CowPrint
Yuno wrote:Unsatisfying?
It was amazingly satisfying. I felt like Rin went through a full change - she realized how precious her own self was.
She wasn't really that dedicated to becoming an artist
I felt the exact opposite. She was totally dedicated to being an artist, but the way she was forced to be creative and forced to do art, as part of some sort of social expectancy for her to push out masterpiece after masterpiece is what ended up destroying her. She actually realized why she did art - because that was her soul, and she was being robbed of her passion when she had the exhibition.
I agree with this, it was satisfying.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:04 pm
by ihatepeace22
sporkaganza wrote:I felt just the opposite - it was deeply satisfying. I felt it perfectly encapsulated the themes of Rin's route.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:12 pm
by ardiel
Rin's path is still my favorite path.
Hisao is Hisao. As much as I couldn't stand the responses at times, there are people who would act just like him.
I also don't think it can be said that Rin didn't have dedication - she had more dedication than probably ten people put together. It just ended up being a different kind of dedication than what was sought after by others.
She completed the exhibition - the art - and came close to killing herself doing it even though she didn't think she could and probably didn't want to. Her failure at social networking afterwards was NOTHING compared to actually getting all those paintings done in spite of all circumstances.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:16 pm
by sporkaganza
ardiel wrote:Hisao is Hisao. As much as I couldn't stand the responses at times, there are people who would act just like him.
That's kind of the problem with VN protagonists, isn't it? Everyone says they want someone who isn't a blank slate, who has more personality. But then we get angry when the protagonist has enough of a personality to do things that we wouldn't do when we pick a choice. But is there really such a thing as a VN protagonist who has
no personality? A VN character will never behave exactly the way you would, because you aren't the one who wrote the visual novel.
I think the devs thought about it and decided that since there's no such thing as as a VN protagonist that you have complete control over, since that would be impossible, they might as well try to give him enough of a personality of his own to make it reasonable to expect him to behave in certain ways based on your choice. But it's a very delicate balance.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:25 pm
by ardiel
sporkaganza wrote:ardiel wrote:Hisao is Hisao. As much as I couldn't stand the responses at times, there are people who would act just like him.
That's kind of the problem with VN protagonists, isn't it? Everyone says they want someone who isn't a blank slate, who has more personality. But then we get angry when the protagonist has enough of a personality to do things that we wouldn't do when we pick a choice. But is there really such a thing as a VN protagonist who has
no personality? A VN character will never behave exactly the way you would, because you aren't the one who wrote the visual novel.
I think the devs thought about it and decided that since there's no such thing as as a VN protagonist that you have complete control over, since that would be impossible, they might as well try to give him enough of a personality of his own to make it reasonable to expect him to behave in certain ways based on your choice. But it's a very delicate balance.
Well it's not so much that for me. I wasn't looking for no personality - just one that
hurts less.
I was not expecting this level of drama in this VN - that is the issue I have with Hisao. It's not a problem with him being his own character, it's a problem with his character leading to heart wrenching situations that I'm still not sure if I could call an enjoyable experience.
Definitely a potent and well written experience, though.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:30 pm
by sporkaganza
ardiel wrote:sporkaganza wrote:ardiel wrote:Hisao is Hisao. As much as I couldn't stand the responses at times, there are people who would act just like him.
That's kind of the problem with VN protagonists, isn't it? Everyone says they want someone who isn't a blank slate, who has more personality. But then we get angry when the protagonist has enough of a personality to do things that we wouldn't do when we pick a choice. But is there really such a thing as a VN protagonist who has
no personality? A VN character will never behave exactly the way you would, because you aren't the one who wrote the visual novel.
I think the devs thought about it and decided that since there's no such thing as as a VN protagonist that you have complete control over, since that would be impossible, they might as well try to give him enough of a personality of his own to make it reasonable to expect him to behave in certain ways based on your choice. But it's a very delicate balance.
Well it's not so much that for me. I wasn't looking for no personality - just one that
hurts less.
I was not expecting this level of drama in this VN - that is the issue I have with Hisao. It's not a problem with him being his own character, it's a problem with his character leading to heart wrenching situations that I'm still not sure if I could call an enjoyable experience.
Definitely a potent and well written experience, though.
It depends. Sometimes I can understand why he makes the wrong choices, but there are other times when I'm like "you dolt". For me, it's not Rin's arc where he bothers me, but rather Hanako's arc. I wanted to shake him through the screen and tell him "What the fuck are you saying?!" in Hanako's bad end, and even in Hanako's good end he's an ass at first.
"Yeah I'm gonna bang her and then just leave anyway and forget about it." GOOD JOB HISAO
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:33 pm
by ardiel
sporkaganza wrote:It depends. Sometimes I can understand why he makes the wrong choices, but there are other times when I'm like "you dolt". For me, it's not Rin's arc where he bothers me, but rather Hanako's arc. I wanted to shake him through the screen and tell him "What the fuck are you saying?!" in Hanako's bad end, and even in Hanako's good end he's an ass at first. "Yeah I'm gonna bang her and then just leave anyway and forget about it." GOOD JOB HISAO
I think Hanako's path was probably hard to write because Hanako is so introverted and downright avoids much contact - but yeah, I felt the same way a bit regarding that.
Re: Anyone else find Rin's good end deeply unsatisfying?
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:45 pm
by Worthington
Probably wrote: Hell, he can't even tell her straight that he loves her at the end.
If he could, i'd be very disappointed. He got hurt in this route, and he's still a teenager and can't make sense of his own feelings or who he is. Both Rin and he are lost and have no idea who they are. He knows that the gap between Rin and him will eventually drive them apart, so he can't reconcile his conflicting feelings. I honestly thought it was very well-written and realistic. Slightly bittersweet, but still ending on a high note.