Katawa Shoujo Forums

YZQ wrote:And yet, we have a forumer who has a very similar life experience to Hanako's. Life is stranger than fiction sometimes.

A few, actually. Odd.

She's a made up character but I'm sure her behavior and reactions are grounded in reality.

As someone who's terribly shy, and with self-esteem issues, I can definitely relate to her in a lot of ways.

So how was it to write different branches for your route? Did it ''feel'' like there was a branch which you would consider a ''main'' branch (maybe as the story you'd want to tell the most) and wrote the remaining branches to fill up the route? Did you plot out everything from the beginning or did you come up with branches as you were writing?

Reksho wrote:So how was it to write different branches for your route? Did it ''feel'' like there was a branch which you would consider a ''main'' branch (maybe as the story you'd want to tell the most) and wrote the remaining branches to fill up the route? Did you plot out everything from the beginning or did you come up with branches as you were writing?

It was a headache. Branching narrative is really hard to do well, and I don't think any of us did a very good job with it. Then again, I also think nobody has ever made a really awesome job of figuring out branching narrative, and I've read quite a few attempts at it. The methods varied between writers. I planned everything pretty meticulously for both Rin's path and Act 1, while some of the writers did most of the branching structure only after writing the main branch, which invariably was the "good ending" one. Most did at least some vague planning beforehand.

This may have been asked before, but what tips or suggestions would you give to newbs who want to develop an original VN?

fireye9 wrote:This may have been asked before, but what tips or suggestions would you give to newbs who want to develop an original VN?

Start small.

Renpy is probably the best choice for a newcomer to making VNs - its documentation is in English, and it's very easy to make a very basic VN.

High school romance is a really tired genre.

Try to plan ahead, which will help prevent the game from growing out of control, and guage what writing, sound, and art assets you'll need.

Basically don't do anything like KS did.

Suriko wrote:Basically don't do anything like KS did.

But KS is internet famous. Everyone knows imitations of famous things always work well.

Was all the internet fame and cult fandom worth the work of making the game?

The game was worth the work of making the game.

That's the best kind of result! \o/

by Silentcook » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:38 am
The game was worth the work of making the game.

It's nice to read these things every once in a while. Seeing all the posts about how you hated the genre, the setting of KS, how it focuses on the same problems as the million other VN's out there, ect... Heck even the fact you all feel so strongly about not doing a sequel, which i don't judge; Better to leave at an A-class product than to continue and leave at something utterly craptastic
It just, somtimes feels as if you don't take any pride out of your work

Merloficus wrote:

by Silentcook » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:38 am
The game was worth the work of making the game.

It's nice to read these things every once in a while. Seeing all the posts about how you hated the genre, the setting of KS, how it focuses on the same problems as the million other VN's out there, ect... Heck even the fact you all feel so strongly about not doing a sequel, which i don't judge; Better to leave at an A-class product than to continue and leave at something utterly craptastic :lol:
It just, somtimes feels as if you don't take any pride out of your work :(

Sometimes it feels as if nobody reads what we say about KS. We don't hate the highschool romance genre, and definitely did not six years ago. It's just overused and unexciting, and thus somewhat unattractive to work further in. I don't get why you think a sequel would be "craptastic" either. I pretty much can guarantee (because I don't have to prove it) a KS 2 would be a significantly better VN than KS is.

We're immensely proud of the work we did and the end result. That, however, doesn't mean that we should be uncritical of KS or ourselves. I'd rather be honest and straightforward even publically than hold a facade that gains me nothing.

Aura wrote: I pretty much can guarantee (because I don't have to prove it) a KS 2 would be a significantly better VN than KS is.

mad respect, I'm not sure if I can articulate why, but I'll try

there is something to be said about the integrity of an artist/author who turns down a guaranteed success in order to pursue what they want to do that might not go over as well.

although I guess an artist/author without that kind of integrity would be hard pressed to have a big hit like KS in the first place

BananaPudding wrote:

Aura wrote: I pretty much can guarantee (because I don't have to prove it) a KS 2 would be a significantly better VN than KS is.

mad respect, I'm not sure if I can articulate why, but I'll try

there is something to be said about the integrity of an artist/author who turns down a guaranteed success in order to pursue what they want to do that might not go over as well.

although I guess an artist/author without that kind of integrity would be hard pressed to have a big hit like KS in the first place

Well you know. What is success? To be popular, receive acclaim and lots of fans? To me success means overcoming a challenge, doing something daring or going against odds. We certainly did that with KS, not only actually completing the project against all odds but it also becoming one of the most popular visual novels of all time. A sequel would almost automatically be popular, as you say. It wouldn't feel the same.

You have to understand that I'm in a very special position that allows me to say things like this. I don't want anything from anyone. Money, stroking my ego, anything like that. If I had some motive like that, some metric to measure "success" by, maybe if KS had tanked, I'd certainly be more calculating, more driven by these external goals. It feels a bit disturbing, kind of like selling my "artistic soul", even if it's just a little. Many creative people who have to deal with external factors in their jobs are brought down by them. That's why I'm wary of bringing money into what 4LS does, because it would change the ways we go about things in ways I'm not entirely comfortable with. I'm not against it or anything, and I like money as much as the next guy, but it's something to be cautious of. Maybe we could try it, see how it feels, but maybe it's just better to keep on going as we have.

Aura wrote:

Merloficus wrote:

by Silentcook » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:38 am
The game was worth the work of making the game.

It's nice to read these things every once in a while. Seeing all the posts about how you hated the genre, the setting of KS, how it focuses on the same problems as the million other VN's out there, ect... Heck even the fact you all feel so strongly about not doing a sequel, which i don't judge; Better to leave at an A-class product than to continue and leave at something utterly craptastic
It just, somtimes feels as if you don't take any pride out of your work

Sometimes it feels as if nobody reads what we say about KS. We don't hate the highschool romance genre, and definitely did not six years ago. It's just overused and unexciting, and thus somewhat unattractive to work further in. I don't get why you think a sequel would be "craptastic" either. I pretty much can guarantee (because I don't have to prove it) a KS 2 would be a significantly better VN than KS is.

We're immensely proud of the work we did and the end result. That, however, doesn't mean that we should be uncritical of KS or ourselves. I'd rather be honest and straightforward even publically than hold a facade that gains me nothing.

Wow, that certainly unlocked a very harsh reaction. If this was in any way offensive to you, i appologise. Was never ment to be.
And to clarify, i'm fairly certain i read that you and the other writers didn't want the same setting for another VN. Simply because it's overused and unapealing to you. Thus my point that i applaud you're never going to make another KS. The gaming industry could learn a thing or two from you.
I never said that your skills as a writer are flawd, once. But what do you think would merrit the best result, doing something you like doing or doing something because someone else likes that you're doing it?

I have no doubt that a KS2 written by you would be a well written masterpiece in most our eyes, but that would only be because of your skill as a writer and if i may guess.... no longer the passion.

Sorry, i just couldn't leave at that tone of you thinking i have no faith in your doing. If anything, i wanted more people to see how devout you are about your creation.

(Somehow i feel this post did more bad than good but at least it's off my chest now)

Aura wrote: Well you know. What is success? To be popular, receive acclaim and lots of fans? To me success means overcoming a challenge, doing something daring or going against odds. We certainly did that with KS, not only actually completing the project against all odds but it also becoming one of the most popular visual novels of all time. A sequel would almost automatically be popular, as you say. It wouldn't feel the same.

You have to understand that I'm in a very special position that allows me to say things like this. I don't want anything from anyone. Money, stroking my ego, anything like that. If I had some motive like that, some metric to measure "success" by, maybe if KS had tanked, I'd certainly be more calculating, more driven by these external goals. It feels a bit disturbing, kind of like selling my "artistic soul", even if it's just a little. Many creative people who have to deal with external factors in their jobs are brought down by them. That's why I'm wary of bringing money into what 4LS does, because it would change the ways we go about things in ways I'm not entirely comfortable with. I'm not against it or anything, and I like money as much as the next guy, but it's something to be cautious of. Maybe we could try it, see how it feels, but maybe it's just better to keep on going as we have.

It's really cool to hear you guys say that. You've said similar things over time, but it still gets me every time. You've said before that you didn't really care about how big the fanbase was, but that you wanted to make something that you would be both proud of and that would hit them the hardest, in just the right spot. It's also funny that all of you have mentioned that you were puzzled by the really strong reaction that KS got. Honestly, the final product hit us all in that right spot, just like you planned, and so well that it almost feels like a "gift." I'm not too sure if that's the best word, but I could shower all of you with "thank you's" for a straight hundred years and it feels like that would be nothing but hollow. I think there are plenty of others here that feel the same (or I'm just really insane. Eh, was never really into crowds anyway). I'm also glad that the blog wasn't flooded with "F*** the man! We do what we want!" posts. To me, it always looked like you knew who you were, who you weren't, proud of what you were doing, but at the same time, not looking to crash anyone's day, unless they screwed with you. You were always positive, and that went a long way. I also wish I could come up with a better way to say this, but that's seriously one of the coolest things I've ever seen, and down-right admirable. Cheers, and I hope that you continue to find the patience to deal with us . Though you also do a pretty damn good job with that, too.