Questions for "stereo"-hearing people

[cpl_crud]

Thankfully most of the answers in this thread are related to the same principle: Phase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_(waves)

Long story short, the shape of your ears creates a reflection in your ear canal. Through this you can determine the location of something, even with one ear. Your brain normalises this as you are growing as an infant.

Binaural recording is something that has been referenced here. Basically you use a replica of a human head and place a microphone in each ear. It was originally designed to make headphones sound like speakers, but when played through speakers it will sound weird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording

Since then there has been work in spacialisation, which is adding phase differences between the ears to confuse the brain. This is part of the feild of psychoacoustics.

There was a complaint above about wierd frequencies during playback; I would suggest that one of your speakers is out of phase. This is usually the cause of that problem. I would check your connections to your speakers or reterminate your connectors and try again.

[SirMax]

It drives me totally insane, especially with earbuds, because if one is pushed in slightly more than the other it'll be louder/clearer and sound off. Additionally, I have to have at least five pairs of headphones I can't use because only one of the two halves work and I can't bear only hearing it with one ear. I don't really have any complaints with stuff when it's mono-tracked, but I have picked up things in the background before based on things like that- in the Zero Punctuation review of Far Cry 2, for example, you can hear an ambulance, presumably because one was driving by when he was recording. Dunno if that's related to stereo hearing.

Also, I didn't know this was a unique thing. Do all people not hear out of both ears?

[Caesius]

There was a complaint above about wierd frequencies during playback; I would suggest that one of your speakers is out of phase. This is usually the cause of that problem. I would check your connections to your speakers or reterminate your connectors and try again.

I don't think it's my headphones (even though my headphones are little bastards), because the issue is always immediately fixed by "resetting" the playback -- specifically, the solution is to go to Tool > WAVE Device and simply click on any one of the following options (including the one that's already checked):



So I suspect it has something to do with my sound card and/or sound drivers, even though I only started noticing this problem after updating my drivers to the latest version. Funny how that works out.

Additionally, it only seems to happen on certain tracks, or maybe it's just more pronounced on certain tracks, which leads me to believe that those tracks are more greatly affected by whatever this problem is (whether it be messing with the sound channels or applying undesirable equalization).

I'm extremely reluctant to change my media player as well, since I've been using this one since 2003. I didn't even patch it to English for about 2 years -- interesting experience, that.

Long story short, the shape of your ears creates a reflection in your ear canal. Through this you can determine the location of something, even with one ear. Your brain normalises this as you are growing as an infant.

I've always wondered whether I'm simply lucky when I correctly determine the direction that a sound is coming from. I never considered it would be possible for me to determine direction with just one ear, at least not without turning my head every-which-way. So I'm always surprised when I turn around and find myself looking directly at the source of a sound (usually someone calling my name), and I think, "huh, now how the hell did I do that?" I figured I'd simply gotten accustomed to looking behind me whenever something catches my attention.

Still, it's much more difficult for me to determine direction in most cases than someone with full hearing.

Also, I didn't know this was a unique thing. Do all people not hear out of both ears?

Not sure what you're asking, but I was born without nerve endings in my left inner ear. So for me at least, it wasn't that I "went deaf;" I never knew what it was like to have stereo hearing in the first place.

Certain stereo effects can make sound feel "deep" in a physically huge sense, as if the music physically exists "around" you. There are even recording techniques that simulate the way ears actually pick up sound. I have one such song that has studio noises in the beginning of it that physically sound like they are coming from a corner behind you to the left. It has made me look behind me in surprise. searching for what made the noise before I realized that it's part of the song

I've heard sounds through my headphones that I mistook as coming from somewhere "outside" the headphones as well, but I think it's usually more because the sound is so real, clear, and unexpected than it is because it has a specific direction.

[SirMax]

Also, I didn't know this was a unique thing. Do all people not hear out of both ears?

Not sure what you're asking, but I was born without nerve endings in my left inner ear. So for me at least, it wasn't that I "went deaf;" I never knew what it was like to have stereo hearing in the first place.

I more meant do all people not hear sounds from each ear rather than a combined sound where you can't tell what's coming from each ear, but I see why you're asking now, so never mind.

[Validus Razgriz]

One interesting feature of some owls is the asymmetric positioning of their ears. This actually improves their direction and distance finding of prey.

2005-09-02-owl-asymmetric-ears.jpg (15.24 KiB) Viewed 5553 times

[K_Amelia]

Because I'm curious as to what it's like to hear out of both sides of your head.

I've had one of my ear-drums surgically replaced, and blown out the other one a few times too (thankfully it healed up fairly well) but I'll try to answer this as best I can...

Do you find it strange, uncomfortable, or unnatural listening to monaural audio through stereo equipment?

No. In my case, mono sources are sometimes preferable to stereo sources. Since the skin they used to rebuild my left ear-drum came from my scalp, it's even more elastic than the "real" one. Plus it's not very sensitive to high-end frequencies, and hypersensitive to extreme low-end.

Does music with a lot of panning (moving of instruments and sounds between the left and right sides) bother you? What if the volume shifts between the left and right sides or is unbalanced?

Panning, when used right, is fine. "Psychedelic" panning effects can be extremely disorienting though. Volume imbalance is always a pain, as are extreme volume shifts.

How accurately are you able to judge direction and distance to a sound source?

Given that trilateration requires three "receivers" to pinpoint a location in a 2D plane, and having two ears allows for two points of intersection in front of and behind you, do you ever have trouble determining the direction of a sound (front or back) if you don't turn your head? (I'll prepare a diagram if this point is too confusing)

Edit: This is trilateration with three intersecting circles (since the diagram on Wikipedia is confusing since it involved three spheres). Taking away the pink circle leaves two points for the black circles to intersect and I imagine is similar to how you guys judge direction (possibly even with two spheres where the points of intersection form a circle), turning your head to make the direction unambiguous.

I... have to admit, I have a hard time judging which direction a sound is coming from.

Are you able to determine the height that a sound came from as well? Is height also potentially ambiguous?

I've rarely needed to judge the height of a sound source. Perhaps it's just something I don't think about enough.

Whenever you cover one ear, does it feel like you've lost your sense of depth comparable to closing one eye?

Yes, although unfortunately (due to the afforementioned hypersensitivity to low-end frequencies) it is sometimes absolutely VITAL that I block out sounds in one ear or another.

Feel free to ask questions in return.

You've left me with questions about my own hearing. Even my E.N.T. specialist hasn't been able to answer them, and I've been asking for 20+ years.

[toast]

Well, I don't think having two ears is the same as having two eyes, you don't really lose "depth" or anything of the sort - If I had one ear plugged up it would still be fairly easy to track things by sound. Mono isn't that big of a deal, it's like Major Major said. However, I do find shifting audio annoying, because it's kinda disorienting, and plus, if sound is only coming out of one speaker, i tend to think the other one must be broken, and then i start checking to see whats wrong.

[Caesius]

People saying that panning is like a contiguous "line" and that "psychedelic" panning can be uncomfortable has made me even more curious, so I went and put DOSBox, ImpulseTracker, and some modules into a .zip file.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/6/742603/it-dos.zip (~5MB)

Save and extract directly to C:, specifically because of this:

Code: Select all

[autoexec]
# Lines in this section will be run at startup.

loadfix -64
mount c c:\dos
C:
cd it
it

Running DOSBox will take you directly to ImpulseTracker, Alt-Enter will get you into fullscreen mode, and Ctrl+F9 will quit DOSBox. To play a file you will first need to load it (Enter); once loaded, F5 will play and F8 will stop, while F9 will bring you back to the Load menu. The arrow keys scroll through channels, while Page Up/Page Down scrolls through the info pages -- the default page shows volume/velocity, samples, and panning, while the most interesting page is 2*Page Up. Q mutes/unmutes a channel, S solos/unsolos a channel, V toggles volume/velocity bars, Alt-S toggles mono/stereo, and all this info is available under F1 if you need it. Also, from the load page, if you go to the IT directory you'll find two more module files that came with the program; they're surprisingly good for "samples" (unlike what comes with most music editors).

(Hint: Avoid the temptation to use the mouse.)

(And for those who don't want to run a DOS emulator to listen to chiptunes, chipamp will do the trick.)


Specifically, on the track Blue Flame (in the IT directory), I'm curious as to what the difference is between an instrument with "Surround" panning and an instrument that's just centered. (Use S to solo the instrument if it's hard to tell.)

Also, back in the "C:\" directory (use \ or .. to get back), all of the .mod files have two full-left instrument channels and two full-right instrument channels, and for me it's like missing half the instruments or even half the notes so I have to use Alt-S to change it to mono. Do the .mod files sound annoying to people with normal hearing? What about other people with lopsided hearing?

Then there's a couple .xm files there that seem to have "psychedelic" panning -- specifically, Unreal Goes Camping and Sometimes. Unreal's panning doesn't bother me at all, but for "Sometimes," the panning starting at Order 5 is especially annoying (and obvious if you scroll down the channel list), and rather than sounding like it's moving on a contiguous line in my head it just sounds like it's moving towards and then away from me really fast.


Since there's apparently quite a few chiptunes that sound bad to me because of my one-sided hearing, I have to wonder if there's a lot of regular music out there that to me sounds very different from the way it should.

[kyuven]

um, wait, i'm completely lost here.
Sorry for my ignorance but don't most people hear in stereo?

[Caesius]

um, wait, i'm completely lost here.
Sorry for my ignorance but don't most people hear in stereo?

Not if they're completely deaf in one ear.

I guess I should've made that clear in the OP; it must be slightly more of a leap of logic to link "monaural hearing" with "one-eared hearing" than I thought.


Edit: Though I suppose it is interesting that at least two people didn't make that connection. Seems as though a lot of people don't put a lot of thought into what it would be like losing hearing in one ear, especially since it's more difficult to block out sound from an ear than it is to just close one eye or to tie one hand behind your back.

[vermithrx]

Specifically, on the track Blue Flame (in the IT directory), I'm curious as to what the difference is between an instrument with "Surround" panning and an instrument that's just centered. (Use S to solo the instrument if it's hard to tell.)

For a single instrument I can't tell the difference between mono and stereo, but with multiple instruments stereo gives the illusion of being in a room with them. Because they are offset slightly, as each individual instrument crescendos and decrescendos you get a sense of them being arrayed in front of or around you and the overall sound mixes differently. It makes it easier to tell them apart. Switching to mono makes them sound like they're all coming from the same source, like a single speaker in front of you. Perhaps if you listen to Blue Flame out of a small pair of speakers set about a foot apart and angled toward you with your hearing ear facing them and switch between mono and stereo you'll notice a difference?

Do the .mod files sound annoying to people with normal hearing? What about other people with lopsided hearing?

If I can't use my good headphones I hate them. (Lopsided, here.) Otherwise it depends on how the sound is distributed. Most of these tracks have the melody and bass on one side and chord progressions on the other side. I find that uncomfortable to listen to because the volume differs between each ear a lot of the time and the one with the heavier load starts to ache. For example: Happier Sundays manages to hold a good balance most of the time. Enigma Orders 38-49 is awesome, but the rest of it I'd rather listen to in mono. The other .mod tracks are very uncomfortable for me unless I switch to mono.

Then there's a couple .xm files there that seem to have "psychedelic" panning -- specifically, Unreal Goes Camping and Sometimes. Unreal's panning doesn't bother me at all, but for "Sometimes," the panning starting at Order 5 is especially annoying (and obvious if you scroll down the channel list), and rather than sounding like it's moving on a contiguous line in my head it just sounds like it's moving towards and then away from me really fast.

Unreal Goes Camping makes me think the right speaker in my headphones is dying, which is very disconcerting. I like the way it pans during the transition from Order 8 back to Order 1 though. Other than that it's hardly noticable.

Sometimes at Order 5 makes me dizzy because it feels like the melody is spinning around me...or I'm spinning around it. Screws with my sense of balance. I like the more subtle pans it does when switching between musical themes though, and the much less pronounced back-and-forth of the lighter background sounds with the beat. Makes me want to bob my head from side to side while listening to it.

Fish And Chips and a lot of other tracks I won't mention sound exactly the same in both mono and stereo.
Summer Memories #3 creates an interesting echo effect in stereo.
Hybrid Song sounds really neat, like you're in a room full of bells.
Superglam's panning is kinda disorienting, but not as bad as Sometimes.
The psychadelic panning in Sunjammer is really well done and doesn't bother me, but whenever something pans it's tone shifts a little so it has more of a simulated doppler effect.
(Woops, hit Alt-S in the wrong tab and accidentally posted before I was done.)

[Caesius]

Fish And Chips sounds exactly the same in both mono and stereo.

The simple explanation for that is that all of the channels are centered.

Summer Memories #3 creates an interesting echo effect in Stereo

I was kinda wondering about this, since I noticed that the notes in Channels 2 and 3 were off by two rows but only one of them would actually sound in time, even in mono.

Edit: You know, somehow I didn't notice that Channels 2 and 3 echoed Channel 1 and that Channel 1 was the bassline proper - I thought Channels 4/5/6 were the bassline but they were just an accompaniment and were more prominent in the "notes visualizer" page.

[vermithrx]

I just realised I didn't really answer your question about "surround panning" vs. "centered panning".

There's a subtle difference and it is difficult to describe. The best way I can think of putting it is that centered sounds more like it is coming from directly in front of me, while surround seems to come from both sides or everywhere at once, but a little softer or from farther away. It's like the sound is only coming from the outer edges of my headphones' speakers and not the center as it normally does, if that makes any sense. (I don't know if that's how it actually works. I'm sort of at a loss for words on this one.)

[kyuven]

um, wait, i'm completely lost here.
Sorry for my ignorance but don't most people hear in stereo?

Not if they're completely deaf in one ear.

I guess I should've made that clear in the OP; it must be slightly more of a leap of logic to link "monaural hearing" with "one-eared hearing" than I thought.


Edit: Though I suppose it is interesting that at least two people didn't make that connection. Seems as though a lot of people don't put a lot of thought into what it would be like losing hearing in one ear, especially since it's more difficult to block out sound from an ear than it is to just close one eye or to tie one hand behind your back.

Well, I could totally understand that. I was just wondering if there was some kind of stereo hearing disorder, or a monaural hearing disorder (besides the obvious missing hearing in one ear thing)
Or, and this one got me thinking, how we don't EXACTLY hear in stereo, we hear more in Surround Sound (i.e. things sound different from behind, in front, or to the side) whereas stereo would mean you ALWAYS hear things coming from either the left or the right, never the front or back.
I dunno, my mind works in weird ways when I read things out of context

[Dollywitch]

Signal theory head here(of sorts).

Just to point out that the human ears don't just determine position of sound between the ears, but also in terms of phase differences we can't consciously hear. Actually, this is how you where having two ears comes in handy in the first place, as sound always reaches them at different times. You should be able to hear panning by placing two speakers sufficiently far apart and standing close to the center, your ear facing the axis the speakers are on. Move more towards one speaker, then another and see what it sounds like. Ideally, stand closer to one speaker, but have the panning set so that the speaker is of a lower volume; i.e. you get hit with the same amount of sound, but are closer to one than the other. The sound should arrive in your ear at very slightly different times, therefore creating a phase difference.

As for the sensation of what it feels like bouncing from ear to ear, try lightly tapping the area near your ear as you do this. There's a kind of "percussive" feel to a Panbrello type effect when done strongly enough.

Stereo isn't necessarily all that amazing though. A lot of older mixes sound better in mono.