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Re: Mary Sue

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:35 am
by lurk moar
Envy wrote:I don't think you know what a Mary Sue is.
With the possible exception of Emi, the girls are fairly well-developed. The character I can see falling into a Mary Sue hole the most would probably be Hanako. Seeing how she's a fan favorite, and from having played her path in Act I, she could come off as being the "shy girl with legitimate excuses for everything and no real flaws except her shyness which is endearing rather than being a character flaw." Of course, Hanako fans wouldn't care, and I'm just speculating out of my ass right now. Besides, we haven't seen enough Emi or Hanako to say they are Mary Sues.

Anyway, no pressure, crud.

Re: Mary Sue

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:03 am
by stranger
Her shyness actually made me (and Hisao at one point) cringe at how difficult she is to be around at times, particularly in public areas. I don't think it could rightly be called Sue-ish, definitely Moe, but not a world-conquering supergirl trait.

Re: Mary Sue

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:07 am
by Anon
Hanako relies too much on Lilly, making a burden of herself.

I wonder if it'll come up in either of their paths.

Re: Mary Sue

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:28 am
by lurk moar
Hanako is a different case in that her reason for attending Yamaku is, at least to some degree, psychological, which is simply not true for the other heroines. A Mary Sue character is ideal, flawless, and unrealistic. It's never too late for a character to become a Mary Sue, and losing the flawed aspects of the character somewhere down the natural progression of the story is a great way to ruin a work of fiction. Ever read a book or watch something where the main character starts out realistic and then ends up overcoming all challenges, becoming everyone's best friend, and essentially perfect? (Bleach, I'm lookin' at you!) Now, apply that to the heroines in KS.

Lily comes off as refined, but the way she's written gives off the vibe that she's repressing whatever her negative traits may be.
Emi doesn't get as much screen time, but neither Kenji, nor Shizune, nor Lily hold her in high regard for her recklessness.
Rin heavily reminds me of Osaka from Azumanga Daioh, she's the kind that's constantly lost in the clouds, usually for the worse.
Shizune is defined by her competitiveness and businesslike attitude which puts her at odds with everyone. Then there's drama courtesy of the Student Council (as with Lily).
Compare those to Hanako, who's extremely traumatized, and everyone is afraid of telling her off for anything because she would implode on the spot.

Of all the characters, Hanako's flaws are the most difficult to expose: she is characterized as extremely fragile. Hanako will remain a flat character unless her fragility (or some other flaw) is exposed and confronted. I can foresee a falling-out with Lily to that end. Of course, all the other characters can end up at the bottom of the boring character pit in as little as a paragraph.

Again, there's not much to go on from just Act I to claim any of the heroines is a Mary Sue (the bar for non-heroines is set lower), and I do trust that nothing I've written is new to the writers. Most people probably wouldn't be able to discern the quality of a character in the first place, it's not like Bella Swan (Twilight) was a literary praiseworthy character.

Re: Mary Sue

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:04 pm
by SnowSong
lurk moar wrote:Rin heavily reminds me of Osaka from Azumanga Daioh, she's the kind that's constantly lost in the clouds, usually for the worse.
That was the feeling I was trying to grasp all the time while playing Rin's path. Now I see it now... But... Rin is not as endearing as Osaka for some reason...

Re: Mary Sue

Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:08 pm
by Coyfish
Nah, Shizune was quite a bit ruthless with her....not directly, though. "The friend of my enemy is my enemy" was what she said, so I can safely say she was intentionally being a bit mean towards Hanako. But I agree with you on all other points, lurk moar.

Also, here's a link from tvtropes about the traits of a Mary Sue:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ySueTraits