Which ending(s) do you consider the worst?

[Potato]

Hanako's neutral one is much worse. I see this one as a Hanako crushing down to the lowest level she can be on. She gets used to being treated as a porcelain doll, gets even more dependant on Lilly and Hisao, never goes out and makes friends, and as time goes by, it becomes even worse.

Wow, that's quite a negative outlook on things...
I see it as Hisao and Hanako just staying friends. Hanako's still spending time with someone other than Lilly and can proceed to make other friends later - especially once Lilly has left for Scotland.

Of course it's negative. She doesn't evolve or grow in any way, she just gives up and accepts her lot as this broken thing Hisao and Lilly will dote on.

[Oddball]

I think Shizune's bad ending was actually better for her character than her "good ending" was.

Really? Could you expand on that?

In her good ending, it doesn't feel like anybody has really learned anything. They basically just kept going, ignoring their problems, and everything worked out in the end.

In the bad ending, Shizune basically had to face up to the fact that she really isn't that great of a friend. She often doesn't consider how other people will handle things, she just drags them along with her plans, and never really tries to communicate with anyone to see how they feel or even to tell them how she feels about them.

[Liminaut]

I think Shizune's bad ending was actually better for her character than her "good ending" was.

I agree 100%. I've actually been thinking about this a bit, so you're getting a long reply.

What do we know about Shizune's history? She joined the Student Council and became president at least a year before KS. At the time the SC was fairly large, and kind of an easy ticket. She took on a lot more responsibility, and managed to drive everybody away from the SC. That takes work, especially considering these are Japanese with a famous work ethic. After crash-and-burning the SC, she periodically could recruit new members but they would not last long. Shizune managed to keep things together by driving her and Misha into the ground. Shizune could take the workload and manage classes; Misha couldn't. There's a good chance that school would have ended badly for Misha if Hisao hand't come along.

In short, Shizune is a dangerous asshole. It's actually a style of management that gets highly rewarded in commerce; a manager that can come in and make a team accomplish dramatic things by completely wrecking it. Even if Shizune says she wants to help people -- well, that's been also true of the wrecking-ball managers I've worked with.

My impression is that Shizune has a very limited emotional toolkit to work with at the start of KS. She is very confrontational, and she thinks of everything, human relations included, in terms of won/loss and domination.

Now, what does it take to change a person like this?

In the "good" ending Shizune comes to realize what a hash she's made of things but in a fairly calm, rational way. My belief is that in the good ending she would find ways to rationalize all her bad behavior and continue it. As noted above, she might be able to create a well-reward life for herself specializing in wrecking teams.

"The dark night of the soul". That's when everything has crash around you and you're left with nothing but the final stark realization that it's all been your fault. There is tremendous power in that dark night if you can harness that energy for real change.

Shizune is clearly going through a dark night in her bad end. And I think she needs a dark night in order to truly change. The challenge, though, is to do something with this opportunity. And KS cuts out just when things are getting interesting.

One last note about Shizune. She's displayed a couple of interesting habits. 1) She doesn't mind fudging reports if actually putting them together is too much work (from the scene where she drafts Hisao into helping her and Misha organize festival receipts) and 2) she doesn't mind using SC funds to buy dinner when it's convenient. This two habits, a basic disregard for accurate reporting and a basic disregard for fiduciary responsibility, could mean that Shizune winds up wearing orange sometime in the future. So her good end could wind up being a very bad end down the road.

TLDR; real change takes suffering and Shizune doesn't suffer enough in her good ending.

[wazuzu]

Of course it's negative. She doesn't evolve or grow in any way, she just gives up and accepts her lot as this broken thing Hisao and Lilly will dote on.

Yes, that's what I meant. But when I was reading this ending (I was confused for my first time and thought that it was a good one) I thought that at some point something just fell down and broke, and you will never be able to fix it.
Like when you read a Type-Moon novel and you understand that you passed a point where your score was lacking that one point you missed somewhere, and what is going to happen in the rest of novel will be very grim and cruel.

[Potato]

real change takes suffering

All the worthwhile changes in the routes come from relief, basically the opposite of suffering. Suffering leads to the bad ends where no worthy change occurs.

Emi and Hanako don't suffer in their best ends so much as put an end to the suffering that was holding them back, yet still take on the best changes.

Rin and Lilly suffer en route to theirs but it's not necessary for the changes made there either. Lilly's changes may have come with or without worrying half-to-death over a heart attack or nearly losing her guy forever, if they'd both just been less difficult in the beginning. And Rin's greatest suffering is either in the exhibition or Nomiya's outburst afterward, both of which could've been excised (and still lead to Rin changing for the better) if Hisao had been less unobservant about it all and handled the problem before things went downhill.

All change really needs is for the people involved to not be stubborn idiots.

[Oddball]

All change really needs is for the people involved to not be stubborn idiots.

So, what you're trying to say is that Shizune is never going to change.

[Potato]

All change really needs is for the people involved to not be stubborn idiots.

So, what you're trying to say is that Shizune is never going to change.

Nah, she might. She's halfway there by not being an idiot...Most of the time.

[SpunkySix]

Which is the one where Word Of God says that Rin kills herself? I only got Emi's good ending, so I haven't seen any other ones, but I'd imagine that one is the worst. On Emi's route, Rin kind of becomes one of your best friends despite her weirdness and I genuinely liked her, so knowing that anything involving her can end in suicide makes me really sad.

[monkeywitha6pack]

If I understand right you are asking about the main route, Rin does not kill herself in any route or ending

[Steinherz]

If I understand right you are asking about the main route, Rin does not kill herself in any route or ending

Actually, one of the Devs stated she does it in her Bad or Neutral end.

[monkeywitha6pack]

Wait what? Can I get a link?

[Potato]

Which is the one where Word Of God says that Rin kills herself? I only got Emi's good ending, so I haven't seen any other ones, but I'd imagine that one is the worst. On Emi's route, Rin kind of becomes one of your best friends despite her weirdness and I genuinely liked her, so knowing that anything involving her can end in suicide makes me really sad.

Get all the other endings and you'll understand. (Note: Rin and Hanako have three each.)

[Guest Poster]

Where did one of the devs specifically mention suicide? I faintly recall Aura stating the opposite actually.

[Potato]

Where did one of the devs specifically mention suicide? I faintly recall Aura stating the opposite actually.

I don't recall them ever specifically saying anyone commits suicide. I think Spunky's confused.

[Mirage_GSM]

Which is the one where Word Of God says that Rin kills herself?

There is no such ending, and to my knowlwdge none of the devs ever made a statement to that effect.
In fact as Guest poster already mentioned Aura explicitly denied this when it came up one time. It's been a really long time, so I can't find the link at the moment... It's probably somewhere in the Ask thread...