Katawa Shoujo Forums

Plasma wrote:Right, question:

I'm gonna start re-reading Shizune's arc again, after I first read it pretty much as soon as the game came out. Can you tell me something that won't make me hate it?


Okay, that's too vague. Basically, when I first played the demo, I loved it. Absolutely loved it. Shizune, being obsessed with competitions and games, and completely shunting all social norms in favour of what's the most fun, was amazing. Pretty much how I think everyone should be. The only character I've seen in anything to be in any way what I'd consider an ideal person.

Well, that was for Act 1. When the rest of the game came out, I felt really... disappointed. Shizune was still kinda Shizune, but she was much more normalised and a good deal less awesome. She was still competitive, but it was more of an implied competitive, where we don't get to see her actually competing in anything. I only remember her playing a single game of any sort past Act 1. As well as that, the overall story tended to focus way less on her and way more on Hisao or Misha, who's modus operandi was "whine to themselves and not do anything about their problems, especially talking to Shizune".

I think the worst of it was the family scene, with Jigoro. At the time, I was thinking "Heh, Jigoro's pretty cool. He acts tough and shouty, but that's just his normal state of mind, he's not actually perpetually pissed. I get why he must have trouble with his kids, but in smaller quantities I could totally get on well with him. If this was real life, I'd put myself in as the middle-man between him and his daughter and... oh my god, Hisao, are you whining in your inner monologue?! He's not actually serious, you doofus, just talk to him! Goddamnit Hisao why are you the protagonist?!"


Now, the last thing is that... I haven't seen anyone with this same opinion. Everyone else seems to have either loved or hated Shizune and her route from the beginning. So I'm wondering, am I missing something? Can someone give me one of the KS-patented Character Analysis(tm) about how I've got it all wrong? Or am I just completely not set out for relationship and romance novels considering I think that anyone not trying to solve their friendship problems by being bluntly honest with their friend is an idiot?

Well, it is Hisao's viewpoint, after all. Given Shizune's dominating personality, it takes time and effort to gather the balls to talk to her about certain things, which eventually they did.

I too think that Jigoro isn't over-the-top. He has legitimate issues with Shizune's way of doing things. Father and daughter are both stubborn in that way.

Blunt honesty can make OR break friendships. As Jack puts it so well in A Few Good Men, "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Honesty is valued by Lily, btw. In Hanako's route, if he let Hanako know that he truly thought she needed protection all the time, prepare your bomb shelter.

Plasma wrote:Right, question:

The whole Jigoro thing gets a lot of airtime because Jigoro himself is larger than life, and all the bluster is easy to make jokes about.

Yes, Hisao is whiny, but Shizune has a facade of her own that she puts up. What's interesting is watching Hisao and Shizune help each other out of their respective shells. When Misha is finally relegated to the background it becomes a lot more interesting. I am a firm believer that you need to be alone to talk to the real person. Misha is unusual for an interpreter in that both she and Shizune know about Misha's little issue so Shizune will be watching her words around her.

Shizune really likes Hisao and, used to being in control all the time, realizes this is a situation where she can't be totally in control (no matter how much rope she buys) and so is doing her best to assert that, trying not to screw it up.

I couldn't have said that any better. Shizune is a very interesting person in that regard. For such an intense personality, I really love how in reality, even if that is STILL true...She can be a normal kid whose just scared like the rest of us. And with Misha around...Its sort of a blessing (In the fact that I doubt you could find any better friend than Misha. She is AWESOME) and yet, a curse. (In the regard that with her around all the time, unless its just her and Shizune. She has no chance to just be...Her.) It's all just...Well no. It's not a front. Its more of a...Careful representation of the strongest side of her. And Sadly that intensity scared alot of people away. Both at Yamaku, and I guess in real life too, with the readers...Some say that might be breaking the fourth wall. I say that it's the exact opposite. It's succeeded in pulling the reader in. Even if it was through hate, it still pulled them in. And that is the mark of a good story. And connecting to that, I'm really happy with how the ending turned out too. Because after all of this, Shizune really deserved a happy ending where things actually look up. It was one of the only endings (Not THE only) That implied that Hisao is going to try to continue things after graduation. I didn't see it at all as "We will all part ways." I saw it more of. "Have a good summer. Come back soon Misha!" As she goes overseas to study. Yeah, SHizune and Hisao will go to their respective homes...But it's not crazy to assume that they might meet up and spend time with eachother during the summer. Hisao said he'd chase her around himself in the end. That made me smile. I also notice that it really bothered people that she never said "I love you" to Hisao. I found that profound. She -cant- say it. And I noticed that even if she could, shes not the type of person to be hanging on someone and saying that stuff all the time. She DID acknowledge it, and it DID make her happy. You don't need someone to say I love you over and over to know it's true. I believe their relationship reflected it just fine, and thats why it didn't bother ol' whiney Hisao when she didn't sign it back. *nod nod*

I was sort of...mixed by the Shizune route. So I sum up my feelings about it with a Pros and Cons list. They contain spoilers so read with caution or not at all if you have not read Shizune's route yet. (Than again, why would you read this thread if you have not done Shizune's route yet? lol)

Pros:
-Jigoro is BY FAR the best character in this route. He's like an internet troll you love to have a conversation with (if that makes any sense). The writer for this route did an fantastic job at making the reader feel like you want to punch this guy so much. XD

- Most of the Misha moments when it was just between her and Hisao were great.

- Good conflict between the father not able to see eye to eye with her daughter due to her deafness.

Cons:
- Hardly any choices at all in this arc.

- The "Comfort or not to comfort Misha choice". I can not tell you how much this pissed me off. Since when did comforting a person mean HAVING SEX WITH THEM!? What in the actual hell!? I thought comforting meant maybe hugging her a bit, or just talking and staying with her...being their for her. But no, instead, Hisao starts to take his shirt and pants off and in my head I'm going "HISAO! PUT YOUR DAMN CLOTHES BACK ON! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING!? STOP IT! YOUR HURTING HER! FIRST HANAKO, NOW MISHA!? STOP DAMN IT! And the worst part is, "comforting" Misha " (as I use that term very loosely) results in a bad ending for Shizune where apparently you having sex with Misha means Shizune has screwed up with something.

-A HUGE missed opportunity for Shizune's family issues. The writer could have done much more with what he had on the table with this. Hisao NEVER has a big confrontation with Jigoro about his ignorance of Shizune's deafness and just overall as a person. The issue with Jigoro and Shizune is hardly ever brought up even though it is kind of a big freaking deal. Honestly, my memory is a little vague for this one because I haven't done Shizune's route in a while, so i might have to revisit it. But I remember how much was this part was ignored and it was just such a missed opportunity.

- Once again, ANOTHER missed opportunity. Only this time, with Misha and Hisao. Hisao finds out later that Misha is a lesbian and really loves Shizune. Hisao is pretty much on the same boat with Shizune. So you expect a big conflict of interest right?...nothing. It was just basically Misha confessing about it and Hisao just ponders on how to go about it, than Shizune arrives, and than...it's ignored for the rest of the story. Eventually, Misha comes back to her old self again, like that little detail about her mentioning she was in love with Shizune was no big deal...ugh.

- Shizune in my most honest opinion, is the most boring main character compared to the rest of the girls (Lilly, Hanako, Rin, Emi and Misha). Seriously, what other characteristic does she have going for her besides the fact that she is...competitive? And my god does that word always get shouted at me. "Shizune has a huge competitive fire in her", "oh man, Shizune sure is competitive about everything", "wow, Shizune is competitive with the way she treats everything as a competition". OK GREAT WE GET IT! She's competitive, any other interesting things about her besides the fact she wants to kick my ass in everything? With that said, she has some redeeming qualities like...being very kinky XD. But otherwise...ugh. I just found her very boring. Less Shizune, more Misha please.

That's some of my take on her arc, there is more to it and i will post more but I'm late for something so I have to keep this post short...er. Overall, the arc was ok.

-Jovereign

Shizune has alot of depth to her that you need to pick out from the text. It's not just a competative streak, which yes, is true. But even that in itself is part of her front. The overall tone wasn't about having huge conflicts, or needing to be dramatic like the other lines, which is why I think people went into it expecting something different. Shizune is a very caring individual, if in her own way, and shows it in a multitude of ways! Not only that, but even though yes, she is aggressive as you so put, she is very obviously insecure within herself, which I believe was the overall tone, given how hisao acted, and everyone else kind of awkwardly shuffled along in the story. It's supposed to be a message on how people arent what you see on the outside. That businessman on the street for example. He might have at one point been a lowlife that turned his life around. You never know until you meet them, and get to know them. Shizune is...How do you say...Mischiouvous...Like a kid. She brings the cat you get her in the story everywhere for example. She has silly ideas about things, and always throws around some fun banter -just- for the sake of being arguementative. Yet at the same time, she never loses that air of professionalism. It's as much a part of her as it is breathing. Shizune's big thing is her loneliness, and how she can make everything go wrong unintentionally. She talks about driving people away, and making things hard when all she wants to do is make it right. She outright tells Hisao that She doesnt know how to fix things, and she hates whats happening, and doesnt want to lose anyone else.

I found the whole story very relatable actually, which is why I like it. You go to a new school, she takes you in and makes you feel welcome in your own way. You make friends and have good times together. Sure, the feels werent always the "Movie style" dramatic stuff, but I think thats why I liked it. It was just about three people who care about eachother going about life in their own awkward confused way.

And Misha. Not once did it say she was a lesbian, only that she liked Shizune, which could mean a multitude of things! I assumed her romantic interest in Shizune was just that. She liked Shizune. She could have been a boy -or- a girl. So long as it was Shizune, I think Misha would have liked her. You say that her depression was never really brought up, but it was! Almost all of act 4 was about that! You don't always approach a problem by going at it, and saying "Hey! You look suicidal! Lets yell at you because you like the girl i like even though we are all friends and you never meant to hurt anyone!" I thought Hisaos approach was...Good. He let her open up to him. They worked through their problems, and everyone came out okay in the end.

Comforting Misha. I thought it was obvious. Yes. Hisao needs a new word. I dont think he knows what Comfort means. But Beforehand, Misha was getting "all up ons" so I naturally assumed that something weird was going to happen. And I was right. Why that leads to the bad ending? Because it causes even more tension, and ALSO fogs up Hisaos mind, which ultimately proves to be too much for Shizune to handle. Because of that, she screws up even MORE, and it becomes unrepairable. Shizune's world falls apart, and in the end, she doesn't have anybody. It was heartbreaking.

Jigoro. He's a dick with a pokemon trainers shirt. TRUE FACTS. Though i believe there was alot of missed opportunity (I would have loved to see what happened to her brother learning to sign), It was discussed in a more subtle way in the story. When they visit the school, Jigoro was that...Strict dad who doesnt know how to share his feelings. He -tried- and that showed alot in my book. Shizune signs something to hisao after they leave, saying that they really do care, and she is aware of it. Hence why they never have one of those WWF brawls. She explains her disdain for texting, which again would explain why shizune has less to do with her family. Was this executed perfectly? No. But am I satisfied? Yeah.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...Sure. its not a perfect story, and yes, I may have seen things where there werent...But I believe thats what you SHOULD do when you read something. Come up with your own ideas, and make the story your own. I believe Shizune's line did a good job with that. Neither of us are wrong in our opinion, but I'm happy that the story exists. It really helped me personally in my actual life. I dont think I could forget her quote near the end. "If you want to cheer someone up, and really get to know somebody, open up with a story about yourself."

Jovereign wrote:And the worst part is, "comforting" Misha " (as I use that term very loosely) results in a bad ending for Shizune where apparently you having sex with Misha means Shizune has screwed up with something.

Curious, because this is not the point which ultimately splits the good from the bad ending.
It's what decides how Hisao reacts, yes, but the domino effect starts when he either leaves on the roof (which confirms Shizune's self-doubt that she is unable to form a close emotional relation with people, even if he actually leaves over feeling guilty - it also shows Misha that he considers her problem with Shizune her own thing) or stays with them both (which shows Shizune that she's not a complete trainwreck of a person).

Shizune is displayed as plenty strong enough. But also very broken. It's this leaving-or-sticking-with-them with a fight coming up which can either prop her up again, or make her falter.
And if Hisao cheated on her, it's quite understandable that he feels too guilty to stick around since he probably suspects the topic will come up.

Jovereign wrote: - The "Comfort or not to comfort Misha choice". I can not tell you how much this pissed me off. Since when did comforting a person mean HAVING SEX WITH THEM!? What in the actual hell!? I thought comforting meant maybe hugging her a bit, or just talking and staying with her...being their for her. But no, instead, Hisao starts to take his shirt and pants off

You ever heard the explanation 'one thing led to another'? That's what's happening. One minute you might be sitting with someone watching TV and the next you've torn each other's clothes off. I can totally picture it happening. Misha is sitting there, Hisao has got his arm around her, she's upset and staring at the floor. She sniffs unhappily, lifts her head and looks at him. He looks back. Then her eyes close, mouth opens, and they slowly move toward each other...

-A HUGE missed opportunity for Shizune's family issues. The writer could have done much more with what he had on the table with this. Hisao NEVER has a big confrontation with Jigoro about his ignorance of Shizune's deafness and just overall as a person. The issue with Jigoro and Shizune is hardly ever brought up even though it is kind of a big freaking deal

It's not Hisao's place, especially this early in their relationship, to start interfering with HER family.

Once again, ANOTHER missed opportunity. Only this time, with Misha and Hisao. Hisao finds out later that Misha is a lesbian and really loves Shizune. Hisao is pretty much on the same boat with Shizune. So you expect a big conflict of interest right?...nothing. It was just basically Misha confessing about it and Hisao just ponders on how to go about it, than Shizune arrives, and than...it's ignored for the rest of the story. Eventually, Misha comes back to her old self again, like that little detail about her mentioning she was in love with Shizune was no big deal...ugh.

Do we need lots of hand wringing over this? Misha seems to be making peace with herself about it. She's already been rejected and now that she sees how happy Hisao and Shizune are she's finally letting go.

Shizune in my most honest opinion, is the most boring main character compared to the rest of the girls (Lilly, Hanako, Rin, Emi and Misha). Seriously, what other characteristic does she have going for her besides the fact that she is...competitive? And my god does that word always get shouted at me. "Shizune has a huge competitive fire in her", "oh man, Shizune sure is competitive about everything", "wow, Shizune is competitive with the way she treats everything as a competition". OK GREAT WE GET IT! She's competitive, any other interesting things about her besides the fact she wants to kick my ass in everything?

Shizune hasn't had much social interaction compared to the rest of them due to the language barrier, which makes her personality even harder to get used to for some people. Hisao is probably her first proper love interest and while she helps him get over his new medical condition, he helps her explore these strange new emotions she's experiencing for the first time.

Jovereign wrote:Since when did comforting a person mean HAVING SEX WITH THEM!? What in the actual hell!

I'm going "HISAO! PUT YOUR DAMN CLOTHES BACK ON! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING!? STOP IT! YOUR HURTING HER! FIRST HANAKO, NOW MISHA!? STOP DAMN IT!

Since every single thing about that entire scene makes it painfully obvious to anyone paying the slightest attention exactly what "comfort" means there...

And what's with the "HISAO, YOU'RE HURTING DEM, STAHP" outburst? In both of those routes, he's cramming a fleshy blood-gorged pole into somebody who has never before experienced the cramming of a fleshy blood-gorged pole into themselves. What do you think, it's just gonna tickle? No shit he's hurting them. It's not exactly a big deal.

metalangel wrote:

Jovereign wrote: - The "Comfort or not to comfort Misha choice". I can not tell you how much this pissed me off. Since when did comforting a person mean HAVING SEX WITH THEM!? What in the actual hell!? I thought comforting meant maybe hugging her a bit, or just talking and staying with her...being their for her. But no, instead, Hisao starts to take his shirt and pants off

You ever heard the explanation 'one thing led to another'? That's what's happening. One minute you might be sitting with someone watching TV and the next you've torn each other's clothes off. I can totally picture it happening. Misha is sitting there, Hisao has got his arm around her, she's upset and staring at the floor. She sniffs unhappily, lifts her head and looks at him. He looks back. Then her eyes close, mouth opens, and they slowly move toward each other...

I have, but from what i remember from the route, it didn't have that "one thing led to another moment". The second the choice is made to comfort Misha, the whole sex scene just comes out of no where. Their was no progression that led to it, just a "Hisao, please comfort me ", than Hisao goes like "OK! *takes pants off*".

-A HUGE missed opportunity for Shizune's family issues. The writer could have done much more with what he had on the table with this. Hisao NEVER has a big confrontation with Jigoro about his ignorance of Shizune's deafness and just overall as a person. The issue with Jigoro and Shizune is hardly ever brought up even though it is kind of a big freaking deal

It's not Hisao's place, especially this early in their relationship, to start interfering with HER family.

So it just never happens? Too early? Thats like saying Hisao should have never chased Lilly to the airport because it was too early in the relationship to interfer with Lilly's family wanting her back. I mean, her family wanted her back to Scotland, so Hisao shouldn't interfer with avoiding that right?

Once again, ANOTHER missed opportunity. Only this time, with Misha and Hisao. Hisao finds out later that Misha is a lesbian and really loves Shizune. Hisao is pretty much on the same boat with Shizune. So you expect a big conflict of interest right?...nothing. It was just basically Misha confessing about it and Hisao just ponders on how to go about it, than Shizune arrives, and than...it's ignored for the rest of the story. Eventually, Misha comes back to her old self again, like that little detail about her mentioning she was in love with Shizune was no big deal...ugh.

Do we need lots of hand wringing over this? Misha seems to be making peace with herself about it. She's already been rejected and now that she sees how happy Hisao and Shizune are she's finally letting go.

Yes, yes we do lol. Its a pretty big deal is it not? I feel that "Misha making peace with herself" is a total cop out though. So shes been there for Shizune for a long time, becomes attracted and eventually falls in love with her, than a boy shows up in their lives, has now taken sexual interest in Shizune as well, Misha just decides "ah well, my loss I guess." Yeah, she has been rejected before, yet why and how does she just accept this now when she has felt at a loss for a long time before Hisao arrived? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Their should have been a scene at some point where Misha and Hisao bring up this issue again and resolve it. IMO anyway.

Shizune in my most honest opinion, is the most boring main character compared to the rest of the girls (Lilly, Hanako, Rin, Emi and Misha). Seriously, what other characteristic does she have going for her besides the fact that she is...competitive? And my god does that word always get shouted at me. "Shizune has a huge competitive fire in her", "oh man, Shizune sure is competitive about everything", "wow, Shizune is competitive with the way she treats everything as a competition". OK GREAT WE GET IT! She's competitive, any other interesting things about her besides the fact she wants to kick my ass in everything?

Shizune hasn't had much social interaction compared to the rest of them due to the language barrier, which makes her personality even harder to get used to for some people. Hisao is probably her first proper love interest and while she helps him get over his new medical condition, he helps her explore these strange new emotions she's experiencing for the first time.

that's great, but the problem is, those "new emotions" never come up or change Shizune in any way shape or form. By the end of the whole arc, Shizune is still THE VERY SAME PERSON from the beginning of act one. No character progression. She's still that bossy, over competitive girl who wants control over everything. The big difference between her and the rest of the girls is that they at least had character progression and changed by the end of the story arc.

Hanako: By the end of the story, while still an overall shy girl, she becomes a lot more open to people. She went from running away at anybody besides Lilly that wants to even say hi to her, to an independent and more confident woman.

Rin: While still the Rin we know, at the end of her arc, she now accepts herself for who she is and becomes better at understanding others...somewhat XD. As Rin puts it, "I wanna be me" (paraphrasing mostly).

Emi: For a long time, she has pushed everybody (except for her mom and the Nurse obviously) that has ever cared about her in the slightest away. She didn't want to become to attached to anyone due to the fact that she's scared of losing them like when she lost her father. At the end, she finally opens up about herself to Hisao.

Shizune: ...Well she's the competitive and bossy Shizune we all know and love...and uhh...well by the end of the arc, she is...still that same person. Little to zero character progression. At least with Misha, you see that their is A LOT more about her and her past than just the wahahaha girl and being a friend to Shizune. Loved Misha, but Shizune...well Shizune is kinky so I will give her points for that. XD

I really felt mixed about Shizune and her route overall. I feel like their was so much missed potential for her arc to become truly great and rememberable. As it stands however, it left me feeling a lot to be desired for. Especially the way it ended. But again as I have said before, it is purely subjective and my overall opinion so take it for what it's worth, which seems to be very little in the grand scheme of things.

In bold.

-Jovereign

Jovereign wrote:I have, but from what i remember from the route, it didn't have that "one thing led to another moment". The second the choice is made to comfort Misha, the whole sex scene just comes out of no where. Their was no progression that led to it, just a "Hisao, please comfort me ", than Hisao goes like "OK! *takes pants off*".

So it just never happens? Too early? Thats like saying Hisao should have never chased Lilly to the airport because it was too early in the relationship to interfere with Lilly's family wanting her back. I mean, her family wanted her back to Scotland, so Hisao shouldn't interfere with avoiding that right?

Yes, yes we do lol. Its a pretty big deal is it not? I feel that "Misha making peace with herself" is a total cop out though. So shes been there for Shizune for a long time, becomes attracted and eventually falls in love with her, than a boy shows up in their lives, has now taken sexual interest in Shizune as well, Misha just decides "ah well, my loss I guess." Yeah, she has been rejected before, yet why and how does she just accept this now when she has felt at a loss for a long time before Hisao arrived? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Their should have been a scene at some point where Misha and Hisao bring up this issue again and resolve it. IMO anyway.

that's great, but the problem is, those "new emotions" never come up or change Shizune in any way shape or form. By the end of the whole arc, Shizune is still THE VERY SAME PERSON from the beginning of act one. No character progression. She's still that bossy, over competitive girl who wants control over everything. The big difference between her and the rest of the girls is that they at least had character progression and changed by the end of the story arc.

1) Methinks you're forgetting the whole 'Misha spiraling into near-suicidal depression' thing that led to Misha's advances in the first place and the fact that it was incredibly obvious from the context and immediate preceding events exactly what 'comfort' meant in this scene. "Out of nowhere" indeed...

2) Two entirely different things. In Lilly's route, he's fighting to hold on to Lilly because there is a chance he'd win that fight. In Shizune's route, not only would interfering serve no such fighting purpose because he's at no great risk of losing her but all it would accomplish is pissing off Jigoro and making things more difficult for Hisao/Shizune by making a proper enemy of her father. There is a certain type of person in both the real world and fiction who does not learn lessons. Jigoro is one of them.

3) They do resolve it in their way. Not everything in life has to have some big discussion to be resolved.

4)So the opening up to Hisao, the recognizing how her pride and competitive nature damages her ability to connect to people and hurts those close to her, the resolve to change for the better...Yeah, none of that counts, apparently. Contrary to your apparent belief, "character progression" does not mean "complete change that is shoved right in your face to be as obvious as possible". Really, the big difference between Shizune and the others is Shizune's route is a lot more subtle. The progression isn't as immediately blatant and the (good) ending trades the standard in-your-face happy time from other routes for something more ambiguous.

And Shizune isn't kinky...

(If you respond, don't do that bolding nonsense. It just clutters everything. I'm not five. I can figure what's what in a forum post.)

Xanatos. When i first met you, I thought you were a bit of a jerk. But as time went on, I realised more and more how much I enjoy you. Now, I cant live without you xD "Fleshy Blood gorged pole." Im still laughing!

Xan is like quantum physics: You never truly understand him/it, you just get used to him/it.

YZQ wrote:Xan is like quantum physics: You never truly understand him/it, you just get used to him/it.

Not true. I'm perfectly understandable. Admitting you understand is treason against all nations and gods though.

Like understanding the Joker? Just throwing something similar.

Jovereign wrote:
I have, but from what i remember from the route, it didn't have that "one thing led to another moment". The second the choice is made to comfort Misha, the whole sex scene just comes out of no where. Their was no progression that led to it, just a "Hisao, please comfort me ", than Hisao goes like "OK! *takes pants off*".

Fine, but one thing lead to another. Too quickly for your liking.

So it just never happens? Too early? Thats like saying Hisao should have never chased Lilly to the airport because it was too early in the relationship to interfer with Lilly's family wanting her back. I mean, her family wanted her back to Scotland, so Hisao shouldn't interfer with avoiding that right?

Hisao doesn't confront her (Lilly's) parents. If he were to try and put himself between Shizune and Jigoro... yes, a lot of things would be said that needed to be said, but consider: Jigoro would be furious that this new upstart who barely knew them was daring to say such things about people he'd just met, and Shizune would be devastated over Hisao's lack of tact and common sense. Heck, even if she were to ask him for support at this stage it would be a bit uncomfortable. Later in their relationship (as seen in some of the fanfics) it might be time. In fact, even discounting the fanfics you can see Jigoro is beginning to (resignedly) accept there is a problem, and I could see it leading to a long, painful but in the end very important conversation between the three of them. Shizune and Jigoro would finally be able to put their cards on the table and speak about their feelings.

Yes, yes we do lol. Its a pretty big deal is it not? I feel that "Misha making peace with herself" is a total cop out though. So shes been there for Shizune for a long time, becomes attracted and eventually falls in love with her, than a boy shows up in their lives, has now taken sexual interest in Shizune as well, Misha just decides "ah well, my loss I guess." Yeah, she has been rejected before, yet why and how does she just accept this now when she has felt at a loss for a long time before Hisao arrived? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Their should have been a scene at some point where Misha and Hisao bring up this issue again and resolve it. IMO anyway.

Because she loves Shizune and that includes wanting her to be happy. You can be infatuated with all your heart with someone, but if it's not reciprocated then you're wasting your time, and you need to let go lest you become consumed with jealousy and frustration. It's an awful awful feeling seeing someone you want going around with someone else because they are unknowingly spitting in your face and rejecting you as not good enough. You can't help who you like or don't like, and you can't force someone to fall in love with you. I feel sorry for Misha but apart from the momentary lapses (standing on the edge of the roof, asking for 'comfort') she deals with it in a very sensible and mature way.

Another thing to consider is that Hisao makes this easier for her. Without Misha, Shizune is isolated and unable to communicate... until now. With Hisao able to fill the role of interpreter, Misha is able to spend some time away from Shizune and not be tortured by her feelings. This new arrangement is ultimately beneficial but it takes her some time to get used to.

that's great, but the problem is, those "new emotions" never come up or change Shizune in any way shape or form. By the end of the whole arc, Shizune is still THE VERY SAME PERSON from the beginning of act one. No character progression. She's still that bossy, over competitive girl who wants control over everything. The big difference between her and the rest of the girls is that they at least had character progression and changed by the end of the story arc.

She isn't. She's begun to change. She's experiencing romantic and emotional attachment to another person for the first time in her life. She's realizing the effect that her previous nature was having on people. Like Misha, these are big revelations for her and it won't happen overnight. She's a person of action and activity and that is influencing Hisao; meanwhile, Hisao's empathy is influencing her. I find it wonderful the way they're learning about the world from each other like that.