Katawa Shoujo Forums

Well the premise of this story seems to be what could happen if all characters made the most stupid decisions possible.
I don't think is an accident, because I know Doomish is able to write characters perfectly if he wants to.

Yeah some decisions were odd but Hisao going into the suspect's house with no backup or even telling anything about the matter to Shizune or Mutou/Yamaku (let alone police) is just way too odd. Of course you could chalk it up to Hisao being impulsive because of despair and being really worried about Hanako but that still doesn't do much for it. Then again, the fanfic is titled "Misstep".

Also, although they aren't nearly as interesting as Hanako's sections, the Hisao chapters do have their own charm or interest going for them. Nice way of increasing suspense with switching to something entirely by the way, i was really excited when i saw a new chapter was published thinking we'll know Mao's terrible secret

Mirage_GSM wrote:Well the premise of this story seems to be what could happen if all characters made the most stupid decisions possible.

I don't think you quite understand that if everyone made the right decision all the time, there would be no story. I keep seeing "so and so should have done this" and "this would have been the logical thing to do" but if so and so did that or had done the logical thing then the story would be over and the resolution would be boring. Yeah, Hanako could have run away at any moment, but then I wouldn't be able to have her get dragged back without people spouting 'bullshit' because the area surrounding the apartment complex is where the whole Hanako story takes place. Yeah, Hisao could have taken someone along with him or let someone know he was going to go investigate, but then there would be no element of suspense because Hisao would always have someone for backup should obviously-not-Miyo try to do something.

Is it weird that I refuse to read this because I don't want an image of a 'bad' Hanako in my head?

Doomish wrote:I don't think you quite understand that if everyone made the right decision all the time, there would be no story. I keep seeing "so and so should have done this" and "this would have been the logical thing to do" but if so and so did that or had done the logical thing then the story would be over and the resolution would be boring. Yeah, Hanako could have run away at any moment, but then I wouldn't be able to have her get dragged back without people spouting 'bullshit' because the area surrounding the apartment complex is where the whole Hanako story takes place. Yeah, Hisao could have taken someone along with him or let someone know he was going to go investigate, but then there would be no element of suspense because Hisao would always have someone for backup should obviously-not-Miyo try to do something.

Hmmm.

Doomish, while there's no particular problem with some characters doing dumb things sometimes, or even with some characters doing dumb things all the time, there's a problem when all the characters are doing dumb things all the time, unless you're writing slapstick comedy.

Horror movie: extra no. 3 is about to get messily dismembered by the maniac. We, the audience, scream "why did you go out alone, you idiot!!" We also don't have a problem with that because we are onlookers enjoying the movie from a semi-omniscient POV. We can accept extra no. 3 not knowing what we know because we're not tied to his POV.

Here you have first-person POV and contemporary timeline. What the characters know is what we know, and vice versa. The audience can and will get personally offended if things get to the level of "oh come on, even I could do better than that!"

Perhaps you should have thought the plot through better before starting. "I have to let the characters behave illogically or I have no story" is an excuse that doesn't cut it for me, or at least not more than once. You've already used it twice just in the above quote.

I Pretty much agree with everything Silentcook said. The basis for the story is definately intriguing, but it smacks too often of things happening because 'the plot demands it' rather than letting the situation play out in a way that feels more natural. I can accept Hanako placing inordinate faith in her potential rescuer and being too paralyzed by fear to make more rational choices, but everyone else is making no sense at all either.

Silentcook wrote: Hmmm.

Doomish, while there's no particular problem with some characters doing dumb things sometimes, or even with some characters doing dumb things all the time, there's a problem when all the characters are doing dumb things all the time, unless you're writing slapstick comedy.

Horror movie: extra no. 3 is about to get messily dismembered by the maniac. We, the audience, scream "why did you go out alone, you idiot!!" We also don't have a problem with that because we are onlookers enjoying the movie from a semi-omniscient POV. We can accept extra no. 3 not knowing what we know because we're not tied to his POV.

Here you have first-person POV and contemporary timeline. What the characters know is what we know, and vice versa. The audience can and will get personally offended if things get to the level of "oh come on, even I could do better than that!"

Perhaps you should have thought the plot through better before starting. "I have to let the characters behave illogically or I have no story" is an excuse that doesn't cut it for me, or at least not more than once. You've already used it twice just in the above quote.

You say "you should have thought the plot through better" as if I don't know what I'm doing. I understand that I can't use "they're dumb teenagers they don't know any better" as an excuse for everything but people keep hounding me about the exact same thing over and over, chapter after chapter. I know the general response to that would be "then do something about it" but it doesn't feel like a problem, which is why I haven't changed anything.

Just because the story uses 'I' doesn't mean the main character is supposed to be you. The reason I had Hanako explain her own thoughts within her own inner monologue is because people wouldn't stop giving me shit about the same thing over and over again. The problem is that I can't change it without going back through everything and restructuring the whole story. Frankly, I don't want to do that because personally I don't think it's as big an issue as everyone is making it! Maybe I just shouldn't have written the story from the first person perspective.

In thinking further I don't think it's the POV that's the problem, at least for me. Rather it's that it feels like you had a beginning and ending in mind and are now trying to justify tying them together, but the natural flow of the situation doesn't lend itself to where you're dragging it. It's like trying to build a railway between two stations but not taking into account the mountains and rivers in the way, fighting the terrain instead of letting it guide the path.

Maybe I should have just had Hanako get raped in chapter three like I'd originally written on pastebin then! Oops! None of this would be a problem if I hadn't decided to make the story a little longer like I did when I was penning down chapter four.

Hey, c'mon man, no need to be bitter. It's your story, you write what you want. There's no limiting factor for believeability in these forums. This is fan-fiction, not famous-author-penning-next-literary-masterpiece. Brogurt got savaged for Mendacium, but he still wrote it. You wanna write something people object to? Do it. It's their problem if they don't like it and can very easily not read it. There's plenty of other things they can read.

Also pls don't raep Hanako. Pls Doomish. Pls.

I just started reading this last night. I like it so far. Well, I don't like it because you're being mean to Hanako, but I keep reading it. As for characters doing stupid things all the time, I don't mind it. I hadn't thought about it, but I get the feeling that there's plan for everything.

Now, can I please shoot the Len Mao guy? Just, right in the nuts. Multiple times. He deserves it.

BlackWaltzTheThird wrote:Hey, c'mon man, no need to be bitter. It's your story, you write what you want. There's no limiting factor for believeability in these forums. This is fan-fiction, not famous-author-penning-next-literary-masterpiece. Brogurt got savaged for Mendacium, but he still wrote it. You wanna write something people object to? Do it. It's their problem if they don't like it and can very easily not read it. There's plenty of other things they can read.

The difference between me and Brogurt is that he got savaged for Mendacium because of the concept. People are griping about this story because of the execution, which I can't fix because it's kind of the whole point of the damn thing. It doesn't matter what I want to do with the story if people aren't going to be able to get immersed with it. Sure, you can't please everyone, but it's hard not to be bitter when you see the same complaint from the same people over and over again.

I think i'm starting to understand what Doomish is saying. You want to give that horror-movie-characters sense to the story? At least that's how i took the "i know why people are gripping about the characters's actions but i don't really think it's a flaw" thing.

Personally, i don't mind all that much. It was rather jarring that Hisao didn't contact any back-up, but i can live with that. And besides, i have been really enjoying the story so far, so the characters taking somewhat questionable decisions isn't any deal-breaker for me.

I suspect the point was to make the story slightly less horrible by extending it into a suspense-heavy scene setup?
In that case, I think it's ok. Sure it stretches credibility, but it's ok in the moment. If you ever have to rewrite it for a publisher you could still think of something else like someone threatening Hisao to make a call stating that he'll be out for a bit longer because it took so long to find the place (or something like that).

Just so all the people here don't think I have given up on this one: I haven't. Sure, I disagree with the people saying the story doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean I'm going to quit writing it. I lost a lot of progress on it because I just have bad luck when it comes to keeping my writing in places where it is safe, so that was kind of discouraging. But I am still working on this and it will eventually be updated again. I've just been taking a break to do some life-evaluation is all.