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Jack of H3arts wrote: Before, during, and after Hanako's catatonic episode I could perceive nothing but murderous rage. Friggin' drill lesbianfrom space...

This comment made me roll on the floor.
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Jack of H3arts wrote:Shizune and Misha (but especially Misha)...except in Shizune's route. When Shizune was the focus, I found her antics amusing, and sometimes they were even a turn-on. But in any other route, I wanted to smack the shit out of both of them. Especially Misha. And especially especially in Hanako's route. Before, during, and after Hanako's catatonic episode I could perceive nothing but murderous rage. Friggin' drill lesbianfrom space...

Oh, right...THAT scene. I agree. Misha sucks there.

Megumeru wrote:

Jack of H3arts wrote: Before, during, and after Hanako's catatonic episode I could perceive nothing but murderous rage. Friggin' drill lesbianfrom space...

This comment made me roll on the floor.
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Your cookie is accepted with all the pomp and ceremony that is its due.

Jack of H3arts wrote:

Megumeru wrote:

Jack of H3arts wrote: Before, during, and after Hanako's catatonic episode I could perceive nothing but murderous rage. Friggin' drill lesbianfrom space...

This comment made me roll on the floor.
Have a cookie

Your cookie is accepted with all the pomp and ceremony that is its due.

*steals the cookie*

OtakuNinja wrote:

arc7angel wrote:Hisao.

YOU, the player, are Hisao.
You say you disagree with his choices, but it's you who choose how he'll react to the various situations.
Good ends or bad ends, it all depends on YOUR choices.
Hisao is merely a puppet, which you use in your quest for sex.

Rin's Route.
You have a total of 6 choices - yes, 6 - and all of them is persuading her to do the exhibition. ALL 6. HOW IS THAT GIVING ME A CHOICE.

Also I didn't choose to have a heart attack when Iwanako asked Hisao out. If I did... I'd be a troll god.

Xanatos wrote:

arc7angel wrote:
1) He makes Hanako horrible to the point she is considered to commit suicide in her bad end.

2) However, as seen in the Lily route, Hanako actually does better without Hisao.

3) In Rin's Route, Rin destroys herself only because Hisao suggests to her to do the art gallery. In Emi's route, she doesn't do it.

4) Just about every character seems to do fine, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T GO OUT WITH HISAO.

Numbered for convenience.

1) Bullshit. Go read the VN or else don't comment on it.

2) Hanako's entire change in that route AND her own is because of Hisao. She only appears to do better faster in Lilly's because she isn't the center of Hisao and Lilly's constant coddling, which only exacerbated her issues in her own route.

3) Rin destroys herself because she's hopelessly dedicated to her art. If I tell you to try sewing and you go off and make a damn tea cozy out of human skin, that isn't my fault. It's yours for being mentally unwell.

4) Really? Okay, let's play this game. Without Hisao:

- Hanako remains a reclusive trauma case with no friends.

- Emi never works past her complex and remains a distant emotional wreck, damaging many others in the process.

- Rin never develops beyond being that weird kid in the art class that nobody gets or cares to understand.

- Misha continues her hopeless internalization of unrequited feelings for Shizune while Shizune remains oblivious and overbearing as always, both locked into a blatantly unhealthy duo dynamic.
- Mutou never gets the satisfaction of a student actuallyinterested in his subject.

The only one who might possibly be okay without Hisao is Lilly, as she seems well enough during Shizune's later route (and apparently made the choice to not go to Scotland, most likely because without Hisao, Hanako literally has no one else and can't be safely left alone.)

1) She's 'considered' to have. I never said she DID commit suicide. Many sources all say "she may have committed suicide this suicide that."

2) She isn't the center, and that's a major reason why she gets stronger. Also seen in the Lily or Shizune arc,Lily still has to leave (that's why she's at Shizune's house on Shizune's arc), and same reason Hideaki knows Lily leaves when Hisao runs to the Shizune household before running to the airport in Lily's arc), leaving Hanako alone, possibly allowing her to get stronger on her own.

3) Rin destroys herself because she's forced to do art at the exhibition. If you do the Emi arc, Rin DOES tell you that her art teacher is making her do alot of work, but it's Hisao in the Rin arc that persuades her to actually do the exhibition. In the Emi arc, she simply doesn't do much and doesn't actually enter the exhibition (or she'd lock herself up alone at the exhibition painting and she wouldn't be able to barge into Emi's room to chase a cloud). Also you can't argue it's MY fault because the game itself is required to send Rin to the exhibition or the story won't move on, and there isn't an alternate plot about her not going to the exhibition either. It's clearly seen that Rin does art when she feels like it, not when she's forced to. So she destroys herself so she can force herself to work this way. Either that or I need to do Rin's Route for the 6th time and reread everything because there IS a lot to read. But yes, the exhibition forcing her to do art is the reason she destroys herself.

4) "Hanako remains a reclusive trauma case with no friends." Hanako joins a club in Lily's arc, and she does get stronger. As seen in the Shizune and Lily routes, Lily has to leave (that's the reason she's at Shizune's house on Shizune's route, also the same reason Hisao sees Hideaki before chasing Lily in the airport on Lily's route) so she wouldn't have anyone to coddle her and would most likely get stronger anyways, which is the argument if you say Hisao/Lily's coddling caused her to be weaker.
You never know about Emi, Rin, Misha, or Mutou. They might meet someone in the future who does the exact same thing Hisao does. Or, they may grow strong enough to fix their own problems for a change. They might not. You never know. That's why I won't further argue on this point.
But...
All in all, (after doing some thinking) I think the developers made Hisao look like a jerk at times because most people are that way in real life; they also made him look somewhat of a jerk so the player can feel some guilt when the other character tells you about what you're doing wrong (i.e. Hanako flipping out and yelling at you); also I think being a jerk at times is what keeps the plot moving (and keeps it realistic), since, for example,if you didn't learn Rin had problems and stuff there wouldn't be any chance for Hisao to get closer to the other character..
He's still a jerk though.

Auratus wrote:@arc7angel and Nomiya hater, Er... everyone.
You know. I somehow feels sympathetic to him despite I am Rin's fan. He possibly plan for everything for Rin and dream that one day he will proudly retire while Rin reaches her peak by her own, and by her own. I means Nomiya will show the door and let Rin walk pass it by herself, or forcing her to walks pass it, whatever you think. He might want Rin to draw art by herself probably because he tried and can't understand Rin's mind like most human being, and realizing that everything he done for Rin is lost, everything Rin painting is for... nothing? I'd in rage but not get mad (so obviously) like him if I were him in Measuring Shadow(?). You never knows what he done after he "ragequit". He might depressed shortly after and may not recovered yet while you (Hisao) are fucking her. Nomiya may be nicer guy if Rin arc end little later.

The reason I hate him is because he raged so hard at Rin, but the exhibition is already open so people can still view it and see the paintings....????
So why get angry at Rin for running from the already-open exhibition, it's not like she DIDN'T paint for him.
I mean, giving a chance for a high schooler to open a exhibition is a big thing, sure. But she didn't close it, she didn't rip down her paintings, she didn't do anything to harm the exhibition except ruin her 'connections,' which, as you know by Act 2 name Disconnect, she wouldn't be able to make any connections to begin with.

Also, I hate SEEing Hisao. I don't feel like I'm controlling Hisao if I'm watching him do stuff like... anal... at a 3rd person view.

arc7angel wrote:Also, I hate SEEing Hisao. I don't feel like I'm controlling Hisao if I'm watching him do stuff like... anal... at a 3rd person view.

I agree with that. And his face when he's fondling Hanako's brests...

OtakuNinja wrote:

arc7angel wrote:Also, I hate SEEing Hisao. I don't feel like I'm controlling Hisao if I'm watching him do stuff like... anal... at a 3rd person view.

I agree with that. And his face when he's fondling Hanako's brests...

Its normal to have dat face--he's a young male with raging hormones, of course he'll put up a something that says he'a enjoying every bit of the moment.

As long as he doesn't wear Nomiya's face with the tongue out when he's fondling...
...
...
...oh god why...

Megumeru wrote:As long as he doesn't wear Nomiya's face with the tongue out when he's fondling...

All of a sudden I see it while Hisao is fingering Rin. Why... why...

arc7angel wrote: 1) She's 'considered' to have. I never said she DID commit suicide. Many sources all say "she may have committed suicide this suicide that."

Whatever sources you're listening to, stop listening to them. They have no idea what they're talking about. There's is NOTHING in the game that suggests she would commit suicide and quite a few times it's shown and said that she's a lot stronger than she appears.

2) She isn't the center, and that's a major reason why she gets stronger. Also seen in the Lily or Shizune arc,Lily still has to leave (that's why she's at Shizune's house on Shizune's arc), and same reason Hideaki knows Lily leaves when Hisao runs to the Shizune household before running to the airport in Lily's arc), leaving Hanako alone, possibly allowing her to get stronger on her own.

I'm not quite getting your argument here. Are you saying that Hanako is better off with Hisao period or just better off without having him as a boyfriend?

4) "Hanako remains a reclusive trauma case with no friends." Hanako joins a club in Lily's arc, and she does get stronger. As seen in the Shizune and Lily routes, Lily has to leave (that's the reason she's at Shizune's house on Shizune's route, also the same reason Hisao sees Hideaki before chasing Lily in the airport on Lily's route) so she wouldn't have anyone to coddle her and would most likely get stronger anyways, which is the argument if you say Hisao/Lily's coddling caused her to be weaker.

Two of the big reasons that Hanako gets stronger in Lilly's route are because she know actually has a friend that can look at her without flinches away or judging her and that because Lilly is in a commited relationship with this person, she knows she has to give them some space. So arguing she's better here is still saying she's better off with Hisao around.

And frankly, in her own route with Hisao, she makes progress much quicker.

Also, Lilly doesn't leave in Shizune's route. She appears in Shizune's bad ending right at the end of the school year.

But...
All in all, (after doing some thinking) I think the developers made Hisao look like a jerk at times because most people are that way in real life; they also made him look somewhat of a jerk so the player can feel some guilt when the other character tells you about what you're doing wrong (i.e. Hanako flipping out and yelling at you); also I think being a jerk at times is what keeps the plot moving (and keeps it realistic), since, for example,if you didn't learn Rin had problems and stuff there wouldn't be any chance for Hisao to get closer to the other character..
He's still a jerk though.

He's no more of a jerk than anybody else in the game and much less of a jerk than quite a few characters.

Oddball wrote:Also, Lilly doesn't leave in Shizune's route. She appears in Shizune's bad ending right at the end of the school year.


He's no more of a jerk than anybody else in the game and much less of a jerk than quite a few characters.

While Lily does appear at Shizune's bad end, she's still shown to be in the Shizune household to leave to Scotland. Just because she leaves doesn't mean she can't come back. But I'm not going with the guessing game.
Also I mean going out with Hanako kind of... ruins her. The main issue is that in both Hanako and Emi's route, Hisao is shown signs of trying to be the "knight". Which kind of ruins her. Until the end.
I mean, the thing is it was Hanako's best friends that bullied her in the past. Shouldn't that say something about how she might feel about her current best friends/lovers?


Well my favorite route is Rin, and ultimately Hisao yelling at Rin is just as bad as when Nomiya yelled at Rin. Nomiya's mainly there for you to understand that's what you've been done to Rin when YOU yelled at her. Also he doesn't try to stop Rin from smoking. I understand the concept behind it but... not only was Hisao influence making her try to become someone else (she does it by destroying herself by smoking) - something she didn't like - and he also smoked with her. Although there is significance of the actions... man, I wouldn't let my friend destroy herself in front of me, and even help her do it. But it might just have to do with me and Rin's route.

arc7angel wrote:3) Rin destroys herself because she's forced to do art at the exhibition.

You never know about Emi, Rin, Misha, or Mutou.

1) Get better sources. Nothing suggests Hanako commits suicide.

2) Hanako gets better due to Hisao's influence in either route. Without that influence, it can be assumed she does not progress.

3) In what brilliant world do you live in where persuading someone to do something for their future is forcing them? It's not Hisao's or anyone else's fault if Rin doesn't know how to say "No". Nobody held a gun to her head. She forced herself.

You can only know what the story shows and the story shows them evolving with Hisao, not without. Storywise, they are all quite clearly improved for having known him.

Megumeru wrote:

OtakuNinja wrote:I agree with that. And his face when he's fondling Hanako's brests...

Its normal to have dat face--he's a young male with raging hormones, of course he'll put up a something that says he'a enjoying every bit of the moment.

I don't like that face. Reminds me of one of my teachers. He always wore that smile...