Why the hate for Shizune ??

[Hitman3256]

IMO - Shizune is a very appealing character to me, because I can very much relate to her. (Im not deaf...although sometimes I wish I were so I can just space out and have an excuse to)
I tease and poke (figuratively) people a lot, my friends know this, messing with people is just my main trait. Im not an ass though, and I dont take things too far. I dont mind making petty things into competitions because it does make things more interesting. I have no enemies, nobody hates me. So in a way, im likeable and everyone knows me and what Im like (btw im in high school to clarify), but I dont have a need to pull people into my life like she does, mostly because I keep to myself.
I'm very forward with people, but always sarcastic too. And if I say something with an underlying meaning, I make it obvious so I know im understood.
I used to wear glasses but then they broke and I made my temporary contacts permanent (prescription of contacts, not like, wearing the same pair forever >.<) My point with that last sentence is that I used to play with my glasses like Shizune sometimes.
I dont have an analytical glare, and my emotions are hard to read. Im expressionless and passive most of the time. Im definitely.....(lost my train of though because I misspelled definitely) well whatever.

Thing is, I like Shizune, but Im very disappointed at how weak her path was. Her character and personality were well developed, but her relationship with Hisao was not. And I was very much looking forward to intimate scenes (not H-scenes, but their H-scenes were very niiiiiiicee) between the two. Shizune's a sexy beast, even her personality turns me on. I like everything about her, I hate how weak (in every aspect of the word) Hisao is -.-

I think that sums up my thoughts, sorry if it's kinda jumbled, and for all the commas too, it's how I talk actually....with pauses and words trailing off every now and then.
I hope this all makes sense.

BTW can I turn off smilies somehow!?

[Otakumon]

IMO - Shizune is a very appealing character to me, because I can very much relate to her. (Im not deaf...although sometimes I wish I were so I can just space out and have an excuse to)
I tease and poke (figuratively) people a lot, my friends know this, messing with people is just my main trait. Im not an ass though, and I dont take things too far. I dont mind making petty things into competitions because it does make things more interesting. I have no enemies, nobody hates me. So in a way, im likeable and everyone knows me and what Im like (btw im in high school to clarify), but I dont have a need to pull people into my life like she does, mostly because I keep to myself.
I'm very forward with people, but always sarcastic too. And if I say something with an underlying meaning, I make it obvious so I know im understood.
I used to wear glasses but then they broke and I made my temporary contacts permanent (prescription of contacts, not like, wearing the same pair forever >.<) My point with that last sentence is that I used to play with my glasses like Shizune sometimes.
I dont have an analytical glare, and my emotions are hard to read. Im expressionless and passive most of the time. Im definitely.....(lost my train of though because I misspelled definitely) well whatever.

Thing is, I like Shizune, but Im very disappointed at how weak her path was. Her character and personality were well developed, but her relationship with Hisao was not. And I was very much looking forward to intimate scenes (not H-scenes, but their H-scenes were very niiiiiiicee) between the two. Shizune's a sexy beast, even her personality turns me on. I like everything about her, I hate how weak (in every aspect of the word) Hisao is -.-

I think that sums up my thoughts, sorry if it's kinda jumbled, and for all the commas too, it's how I talk actually....with pauses and words trailing off every now and then.
I hope this all makes sense.

BTW can I turn off smilies somehow!?

You just think nobody hates you because you're on the dishing out side of the teasing, poking, and sarcasm instead of the receiving end.

[Hitman3256]

You just think nobody hates you because you're on the dishing out side of the teasing, poking, and sarcasm instead of the receiving end.

Way to destroy the remnants of my self esteem -.-

[Dawnstorm]

While I was reading this thread, a car was passing by outside. I turned my head, but I could only see its headlights. It turned left and drove away without ever entering my field of vision. I know it was there, because I heared it. Turning my head was an instrinctive reaction: the car was an acoustic distraction. If I were deaf, I would have just continued reading this thread. Ultimate focus, no distraction.

Deafness reduces the space you inhibit. Your perceptive focus is what you see in front of you, and what you feel (i.e. when a door opens, you might feel a draft). Think of Misha's guess-who game, and think of how different that would be for Shizune, than for nearly everyone else.

Pair this "reduced space" with a father who refuses to give too much attention. Then seed this onto a girl who wants to live, with a passion that just wants to come out, and you get Shizune. Her love for games makes so much sense: in a game, the focus in neatly defined. Her deafness-disadvantage disappears (or is very much mitigated). It's a way to connect with others. You do the same thing. Please note that Shizune is not a sore loser (cf. Kenji's package scene, where the box then even hinders her ability to communicate).

A lot of Shizune's actions make perfect sense if you bear this in mind. Take Hanako. Hanako is difficult for Shizune to handle, because she doesn't like to be looked at. Yet, if Shizune doesn't focus her eyes on her, Hanako is something like a marginal existance to her. Literally. Something that flickers around at the periphery of her of her vision. A ghost. This is what makes the chess scene so brilliant, I thought. They both focus on the board and this - for Shizune - is pretty much the best way to have a prolonged interaction with her. It's not much, but she tries to make the best of it. It's probably why she over-analyses, but she's not entirely wrong either, is she?

Shizune's problem, the way I see it, is that she wants too much too soon. A lot of it is termperament. My problem with her route is that Hisao was pretty much an enabler for the entire route, and things just petered out. There was little story-development. I'd say what we got was: Hisao learns to understand Shizune. And that is it. (If I had written a route I think I might have had them go for a relaxation competition: Hisao worries too much, and Shizune is too impatient. They'd both have benefited from relexation. )

Shizune is probably my least favourite character (although I have yet to play Emi's route), but I still like her quite a bit. I love her playful side.

[Mysterious Stranger]

(If I had written a route I think I might have had them go for a relaxation competition: Hisao worries too much, and Shizune is too impatient. They'd both have benefited from relexation. )

If I had written Shizune's route, she would've taken the backseat as Hisao and Misha ride off into the sunset, Bonnie and Clyde style, to go join up with Kenji and save the universe from hordes of ultra-feminist aliens before subsequently conquering it through the sheer might of "Wahahahaha~!" And then it would rain parfaits, and Misha would bust through the heavens with her drills.

I'll be right back, I'm going to start working on fleshing that out a bit more.

[Synthus]

Well put, Dawnstorm. I hadn't considered that chess scene at anything beyond face value.

There's so many subtleties and nuances shading Shizune's interactions with her peers in this path that I can't decide if A22 was a genius writer or if we're just overthinking it.

[metalangel]

Shizune's problem, the way I see it, is that she wants too much too soon. A lot of it is termperament. My problem with her route is that Hisao was pretty much an enabler for the entire route, and things just petered out. There was little story-development. I'd say what we got was: Hisao learns to understand Shizune. And that is it. (If I had written a route I think I might have had them go for a relaxation competition: Hisao worries too much, and Shizune is too impatient. They'd both have benefited from relexation. )

I'd argue that Shizune also learns. She has her first romantic relationship, which in turn comes from what is possibly her first friendship founded on mutual interest and enjoyment of each other's company than anything else (she's friends with Misha out of necessity as much as anything else). I won't go into the learning to trust thing again (said it many times over in this and other threads) but I think they both emerge from the route different to how they went in.

It's also occurred to me as I wrote this... did Shizune try to white knight Hisao? She did, after all, make him her personal project at first to get him involved in the Student Council, to both keep him too busy to worry about his health and to perhaps let him experience the same enjoyment and satisfaction she got from putting together projects for others to enjoy.

[Guest]

I'd argue that Shizune also learns. She has her first romantic relationship, which in turn comes from what is possibly her first friendship founded on mutual interest and enjoyment of each other's company than anything else (she's friends with Misha out of necessity as much as anything else). I won't go into the learning to trust thing again (said it many times over in this and other threads) but I think they both emerge from the route different to how they went in.

That'll teach me to be too categorical. Thinking about it, I agree.

It's also occurred to me as I wrote this... did Shizune try to white knight Hisao? She did, after all, make him her personal project at first to get him involved in the Student Council, to both keep him too busy to worry about his health and to perhaps let him experience the same enjoyment and satisfaction she got from putting together projects for others to enjoy.

Hm, I thought it was a mix between, "Hey, here's a new guy! Everyone else is already running away!", "school council = white knight's chapter" and "Say, doesn't he look depressed?" A couple of complementary goals merging during the story. So, I think the effect is a mix of the school council agenda and cheering up Hisao, rather than white-knighting per se. (I think of White-Knighting as creating a dependency structure - I'm going to protect you, and you're going to be protected, and that defines our values within the relationship. Shizune never does that - she's always trying to get others to pick up their share. More a development aid work than a white knight, IMO. See the voting preparations near the end for details: the student council protects the students; but the students are the student council.)

[metalangel]

A good point. She never overtly sets out to protect him, but on a few occasions early on has to save him from himself. The fireworks display is a pivotal moment ([after all his effort for today's events he's just going to mope? Not having that, Hisao] she thinks) as is the second festival. Hisao is again practically dragged along (not as much as beforem mind you) and is almost forced to participate and enjoy himself... and then realizes he is enjoy himself and, more importantly, Shizune's company. He wants more, and asks. She agrees, perhaps expecting that this might happen.

I wonder if Shizune perhaps seem him as at risk of becoming another Hanako? Reclusive into their own unhappiness?

She also perhaps sees him as the new guy, unspoiled: she has a reputation at the school of which he is unaware, so she thinks this is a chance for someone to get to know me and not what others have said about me. By the time her... issues... become apparent, Hisao already seems to like her too much for them to put him off.* (she probably also realizes he's cute and the romantic potential of the above)

*you also note that Misha and Shizune seem determined to keep him to themselves... so that he won't have time to hear the gossip about those two bitches in the student council before he's had a chance to make his own mind up.

[themocaw]

She also perhaps sees him as the new guy, unspoiled: she has a reputation at the school of which he is unaware, so she thinks this is a chance for someone to get to know me and not what others have said about me.

Now I'm imagining Shizune with pointy ears and blue hair, signing, "YOU SHALL CALL ME LAFIEL!"

Here's an interesting thought: has anyone noticed how often hands get mentioned in this route? Not only when used for sign language, but when doing things like building the booths, going fishing, pressing her hands against yours during the first H scene, carrying the box together? Here's a theory: any scene where that happens, think of it in terms of Hisao and Shizune communicating with each other. Maybe there's a lot more going on in the route than you think?

[Mirage_GSM]

Hey, Lafiel is nowhere nearly as bossy as Shizune, even though she'd have much more reason to be - being a) royalty and b) in the military.