Katawa Shoujo Forums

5433? Do we even have so many active members?

newnar wrote:5433? Do we even have so many active members?

We only ever have a handful active. A lot of members that were around only half a year back are gone.

Now you make this sound like my WoW/GW2 guild.

Carighan wrote:Now you make this sound like my WoW/GW2 guild.

you just made me think of the fact I haven't been able to play WoW cause of college work.
GG :p

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:I tend to rate the girls by damage. Hanako being unarguably the most hurt and damaged, with Emi second. Lilly is the least damaged, although I like her right under Hanako. But generally, I go for the person I'd like to make smile the most. Hanako is definitely the girl I'd love to make smile more. Isn't that what moe is? The amount of sympathy you feel? However, that can differ between people. The fact of who suffered the most growing up, that can't change.

The very point of Hanako's route is that that kind of mindset is deeply insulting. It basically implies that all the traits she might actually feel good about (selfless personality, geeky charm, moderate competitiveness, likes games, likes computers, likes singing) aren't nearly as alluring as the fact that she's damaged and therefore a suitable way for her would-be rescuer to pump up his own self-esteem. If you missed that, you might need to replay the route. I know you said you didn't like the idea of watching Hanako's bad ending, but I really, really think you should. It seems to have been tailored for this kind of mindset.

Ugh, none of you get what I'm saying! It's going over all your heads! I don't mean what it sounds like I mean. I'm not the best at choosing my words, that's nothing new. What I'm trying to say is, I see the good in her, I know it's hidden beneath a bunch of spiritual damage, and bringing out her best self and helping her overcome the pain in her life would be a great victory for me. Making a hurting person smile is something I take much joy in. Nothing is wrong with that.

And, sorry, but yes, Hanako does have the most painful experiences in life among all the girls, that can't be argued.

Hence her song, Painful History. Did any of the proper emotions from that sink in? It hits me hard every time, but unlike Hisao, I know there is something I can say to bring a smile to the girl's face. I'm hardly ever speechless in a situation where I KNOW a kind word is needed.

I know I kinda came across weird, but I didn't mean that I sit here with the mindset you think I do.

Ask Dr. Casey, he knows what I've been trying to say all this time. Right, Doc? At least I have one ally in this. I'll stop before I go on to some book of a response. If you're unsure about something, ask. It sure will save a lot of trouble.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Ugh, none of you get what I'm saying!

"I tend to rate the girls by damage" is what you said. That means you decide who's your favorite based on how fucked up they are. So you don't rate them by their own merits. You rate them by how damaged they are because the more damage they have, the more joy you can get in fixing them. And however you word that, it's kind of fucked.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Hanako does have the most painful experiences in life among all the girls, that can't be argued.

Rin has spent her entire life shut out by a world that does not understand and avoided by people who don't want anything to do with her all based on misunderstandings, not to mention she often can't even understand herself and lives with the constant belief that she's fundamentally messed up.

Emi lost her legs and father in a traumatic accident that left her with constant vivid nightmares and a complex that has rendered her incapable of any proper connection with others.

Shizune has spent her life unable to effectively communicate with even her own family (and her own father outright refuses to try surpassing this barrier), not to mention the damage Misha's endured and created in her dealings with Shizune.

Now, do you want to continue the ridiculous "it can't be argued" claim or has the point gotten through? You think Hanako has endured the most pain but you are not the end-all authority on the matter. To say your opinion can't be argued kind of makes you a lousy person.

As far as damaged goes, I'd only argue Shizune has maybe less damage than the other ones. And for her, Misha easily fills up the rest. In fact including her I'd argue Shizune's path "wins".

But the whole point of the game is that everyone has damage.
Hanako suffers under a growing up of being shunned, and everyone always seeing her skin, never her person.
Lilly protects people around her, especially Hanako and Hisao, because she doesn't want them to lose everyone like she did.
Emi plays the cool and active one to the point where she can use it to cover up her issues of personal isolation.
Rin is alone in a world of people unable to understand her, with her depending on people doing that since she herself does not.
Shizune cannot even properly connect to someone as a result of the language barrier (as she explains in the good ending). And Misha built up a complete persona she uses day in and day out to be able to stay as close to Shizune as she is, despite being so emotionally far away from her.

I know you probably didn't mean it that harsh, so all fine with me. Just to keep in mind, people seeing Hanako's damage first is exactly her "trouble".

That rewording isn't going to change people's negative outlook on your reasoning. Saying that damage is the main criteria for liking a girl regardless of the "Why?" is going to get judged by people. You're either an emo, a sociopath, or more aligned to what you are saying and how people are going to perceive it, you are a "White Knight" as you said before in this forum, but now by its appropriate definition.

Personally I don't really care why one would like another as long as it doesn't cause people pain, for given proper examination, any cause for liking a girl is due to it providing the liker some sort of psychological advantage. It's ultimately about what makes us feel good, criticism of the methods that do so that don't cause others pain is silly. However, sometimes people do not like being perceived to be as certain things, and in many cases in real life, and in the case of Hanako, she wouldn't want to be seen as a personal victory for your desire to heal and protect people.

If I could pose the question of how you would feel if at the time of playing there was an additional girl that was even more damaged than Hanako was and had the same other personality facets, solely using the logic provided by you hitherto, you'd pick this new girl over Hanako, right? Because you are a "Hanabro" now, your knee jerk reaction is going to be, "No!", but could you provide actual reasoning as to why that reaction would truly be "no" as opposed to just clinging to what you are attached to now? Again, whether your answer is ultimately yes or no I'm not really concerned (I'm guessing "No" either because you haven't revealed all of the reasons or you will try to come up with one either believing there is one or feeling a need to now provide an additional one), just interested in what you will say, and probably what you'd answer with would receive a better light than what you've been saying thus far. You've nothing to prove to anyone.

My main counter point is I'm not trying to say that damage is the main criteria for which girl I like. I'm simply stating the solo fact, that somewhere in my mind, I tend to put the girls into some kind of order as to who hurts most. It's a standalone fact that's by itself. Now can we please clear this up, because I really don't feel like arguing with strangers who have NO CLUE what kind of person I am.

My mind can go all sorts of places as to which girl I find most attractive. That is, if they were real people and I knew them all. The rest of what I say is really just me ranting about which route I liked the most. And like I said elsewhere, there is no 'best' girl. It's all a matter of who affects and 'reaches out' to you the most.

I'm done. Now can we please discuss other matters?

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:My main counter point is I'm not trying to say that damage is the main criteria for which girl I like.

Fair enough but that is exactly what you said. You rate by damage. Now you say you only put them in an order by damage. Organizing and rating are two different things. One is just a sorting method. The other is sorting based specifically on preference. So your wording was off. No big deal.

And I can hazard a guess at the kind of person you are, actually...At least in one aspect. You've been around long enough.

Right, as I said, I'm horrible with words. That's what I meant. Organize. Not rate. Like putting papers in a filing cabinet to deal with them easier later.

Still man, I have a feeling my empathy is getting seen in the wrong light. Some people around here are pretty good at describing Shizune. I can safely say I'm a lot like her, although my methods are completely different. Although just walking around saying nice things to people isn't always enough. It's a harsh world out there. Some people might say "lead by example" or "actions speak louder than words." If I was saying everything I say for my own personal gain, don't you think there would be more of a loophole somewhere? I genuinely want to make others happy, not for my own personal recognition either. My heart just melts seeing others sad. That's why I went off in the "would you bully Hanako" thread.

Know what I mean?

Well, you posted in a thread about rating your favorite girl from Katawa Shoujo expressing how you organize them and then describe at how you prefer the one that was organized at the top, at the top, using the criteria of how you previously organized them. And when asked for a bit more, you say that you do not wish to argue with people you don't know (i.e. probably everyone on this forum or any place on the internet) and that you can't say who you like more unless you met them in real life (which isn't the question being posed in this thread) or that what you can say is only about their path (which is also not the question posed (paths =/= girl)). I don't mean to be getting on your case here, but I'm lost. This is my personal desire, to understand things. Enter, Rin.

Also, sorry to say this, but any criteria for liking or casting preference on things IS out of personal gain. Even if that means you doing things that help others, you wouldn't be doing it without the psychological desire to do so. You helping others is the quenching of that desire. Remove the desire to help others and obviously you wouldn't (intentionally) help others. The concept of "true" altruism philosophically speaking is an illusion. This understanding is called psychological egoism. Whether you are doing it for others to recognize isn't the point.

I have a knack for going on a rant about unrelated things. Doesn't Rin do that too? If you're all so patient in understanding and loving her, why can't you reach out to me with the same type of generosity? For the 'Rinbros', if you all dealt with Rin the same way you're dealing with what I'm saying, I can't see how you enjoyed her path at all. I for one am trying to use what I learned from KS without flipping my lid too much, like I have a habit of doing sometimes. I only control myself for so long, and then I start losing my temper, then I feel bad about it, try to make up for it, but by then I've been permanently labeled as something negative. So yes, enter Rin. I am the misunderstood, and people don't seem to get what I say at all, which puts me in my own world so to speak.

*deep breath*

SothenwhatIamtryingtosayisthatIreallycareaboutpeopleanditreallyhurtsmetoseeanyonesufferandthishasnothingtodowith

myownpersonalgainandallthistalkaboutmehelpingothersformyownpersonalgainisnonsenseatleasttomeandiftheworldthough

tmorelikemetherewouldbelesssufferingandpainandlessviolenceandprettymuchlessofallthebadthingsthatareintheworldsope

opleshouldtrytohelpothersandnotcareifitbenefitstheminanywaybuttodoitwithasenseofdutybecauseweareallcalledtohelpo

thersandthatiswhatkindofpersonIamandIwillalwaysbethatwayuntilthedayIdieandnooneornothingwillevertakethatfrommesod

obecarefulaboutwhatyousayaboutmebecausepeoplelikemearerareandtherearetoomanyselfishpricksintheworldandthatisw

hysomanypeoplesuffer.

How's that for a nice Rin reference? Did you get all that? Huh? Or do you need to ask further questions? Please do prove you have learned something from Rin's story.

The reference was ruined by the spaces in between lines. That presents a moment for breath. Rin's outburst was all one big block. And you'd get more friends here if that post didn't sound condescending as hell...

Look, if you get pleasure from the happiness of others (as you've stated), then you're helping them is for a personal gain because the act of helping them gives you pleasure. You say it hurts you to see others suffer? So you're helping them for a personal gain still: By helping them overcome their suffering, your own hurt is diminished. That's not a problem, just a fact of psychology.