Katawa Shoujo Forums

Bara wrote:Yep, but frankly, some of the everyday speech we all use is nowhere near grammatical or elegant. So it makes sense that some of the dialogue Hisao and the girls use is also like that. If anything they use very little slang for high school kids.

Very true. There's an article that came out about a month ago that's fairly enlightening on this matter (Excuse the political context in which it's written. The actual linguistic analysis is what I'm after).

This is also why I have a terrible time writing dialogue whenever I'm working on fiction. I realize there's a massive dichotomy between how I speak and how I write (especially when I start speaking as quickly as I am thinking when I'm riffing on an idea). If I try to write natural dialogue it always comes out stilted and awkward.

Warwick wrote:

Bara wrote:Yep, but frankly, some of the everyday speech we all use is nowhere near grammatical or elegant. So it makes sense that some of the dialogue Hisao and the girls use is also like that. If anything they use very little slang for high school kids.

Very true. There's an article that came out about a month ago that's fairly enlightening on this matter (Excuse the political context in which it's written. The actual linguistic analysis is what I'm after).

This is also why I have a terrible time writing dialogue whenever I'm working on fiction. I realize there's a massive dichotomy between how I speak and how I write (especially when I start speaking as quickly as I am thinking when I'm riffing on an idea). If I try to write natural dialogue it always comes out stilted and awkward.

Some good points in that there article, you know.
(While reading it I did have a flash of Rin and Pallin debating on the 2nd Amendment "Right to Bear Arms".)

Bara wrote:(While reading it I did have a flash of Rin and Pallin debating on the 2nd Amendment "Right to Bear Arms".)

I had wanted to save this for when I got 100% on ver 3 but that might be a while now so here is what I have noticed so far:

Sprites: These two have already been covered ad nauseam so I wont say too much. Emi's sprites look great stylistically but are still in a rough, sketchy form. The lines have not been smoothed out into single clean ones. I definitely like her better now though. Yuuko's new sprites are excellent, fundamentally good and polished better than Emi's. I do question the necessity of it though. She is a minor character and I didn't think she really looked that out of place before. Now on to sprites that were not changed but do need a fix. Lilly's sprite where she puts her hand to her mouth still looks odd. Its not a well used sprite though, so it may be overlooked if it is too hard to change only one sprite in a series. Hanako's sprite set still has some real issues. In the sprite where she turns to 3/4ths view and holds her hands to her chest in fright, her torso is disproportionately wide and her arms are a bit too thin in contrast. A similar issue occurs in her front view sprite where she, again, holds both hands to her chest. Her arms are very thin and bend unnaturally sharply at the elbows. This problem is compounded by the fact that the problem sprites are ones that show up all the time, unlike Lilly's single off sprite.

Soundtrack: "The Student Council": This one was very disappointing, not in the least because it used to be my favorite track. The core of the old one was its strong solo violin part. While the violin was not perfect, it worked and made the song what it is. In the new version, the violin has been removed completely to be replaced by very weak guitar and clarinet parts. These two are much less powerful and end up being drowned out by the background parts. Also, the synthetic flutey sounding part that comes in near the middle is now so overpowering that it becomes distracting whereas before it had been covered up by the strong violin part. As a fix, I would suggest bringing the violin back but making it more orchestral if it really was so distracting or problematic before. "Out of the loop": by muting the beginning, its no longer as distracting and therefore much better. It still keeps the main silly, kooky feel it should have, which is another plus. "Ah Eh I Oh You": The newly added... plucked cello? part is quite strong and a bit odd sounding. Its quite distracting and needs to be toned down a bit. The rest of the changes are ok though and the sax part is quite nice. "Concord": the new orchestral part is excellent and gives the piece the majestic feel that suits Lilly. "High tension": This song was not changes, and thats the problem. The loud honk of the trumpet at the crescendo does not sound dramatic, but is instead mood breaking and ruins the tension of the dramatic scenes.

Sprite animation: I have noticed that there were a lot of added animations to the still sprites. Things like Hanako shuddering when you meet her in the library the first time. The problem with trying to convey the motions with the still sprites is that the sprites do not change as you move them, so it looks unnatural and detract from the atmosphere a lot of the time. Shizune and Misha signing to each other is one example. It does not look like they are signing, really, instead it looks like the sprite is just flickering and bugging out.

CGs: In Emi's CG, her running blades look very caroony and plasticy. They lack a lot of the mechanical detail needed to make them look real. The picture also feels a bit empty, with the background lacking in details, but this is minor. I still find it odd that the CGs of Hisao and Lilly facing each other at the table are not included in the CG collection since they definitely are CGs. I have also noticed that the CG's appearances have been shortened in favor of more sprite action, at least in the case of Hanako in the library and Shizune at the tea house. I do not really agree with this since, as mentioned above, the cg animations are not that expressive (due to limited variety of sprites) and because the CGs are special and, I feel, should be displayed more when they have the chance to show up.

Miscellaneous: The new songs are slightly, but noticeably, lower in volume than the old songs, making them sound weaker by comparison. The new opening movie sounds and its inclusion in the game proper work well and are fitting.

I am only at 34% completion, so I have not seen everything yet. As an analysis of what I have seen though, I would say that my feelings are mixed about ver 3 but I am leaning towards the positive. Most of the changes are for the better, but I am disappointed by some and there are still things left unaddressed. Despite all my complaining KS is still very, very solid in all departments as it always has been. Ver 3's changes have not hurt this in any way and the experience is still enjoyable overall. I know that I have said mostly negative things, but I am trying to give feedback that is actually useful.

Shades of Grey wrote:Soundtrack: "The Student Council": This one was very disappointing, not in the least because it used to be my favorite track. The core of the old one was its strong solo violin part. While the violin was not perfect, it worked and made the song what it is. In the new version, the violin has been removed completely to be replaced by very weak guitar and clarinet parts. These two are much less powerful and end up being drowned out by the background parts. Also, the synthetic flutey sounding part that comes in near the middle is now so overpowering that it becomes distracting whereas before it had been covered up by the strong violin part. As a fix, I would suggest bringing the violin back but making it more orchestral if it really was so distracting or problematic before.

Here's where I mainly disagree. My main gripe when I first heard The Student Council was precisely the terrible violin part. It was wandering without any focus and lacked any sort of phrasing or articulation. While I concede the point that the flute's counter-melody can be a little strong at times, at least now it's a recognizable instrument. The original "flute" made me cringe, especially at the repeated notes section. While I agree that the clarinet's not as "elegant" as a violin, it quality of the sample's a lot better. I still hold issue with the lack of phrasing and articulation, but considering they're MIDI files, I won't hold it against Blue too much. I'm just a humble performer and not a composer, so I'm not as intimately familiar with the technical difficulties that may arise from implementing any of the ideas I have in my head to improve the tracks. Maybe if I find myself a decent MIDI editor, I'll take a look at nicol's midi files, which I've acquired.

Warwick wrote:Here's where I mainly disagree. My main gripe when I first heard The Student Council was precisely the terrible violin part. It was wandering without any focus and lacked any sort of phrasing or articulation. While I concede the point that the flute's counter-melody can be a little strong at times, at least now it's a recognizable instrument. The original "flute" made me cringe, especially at the repeated notes section. While I agree that the clarinet's not as "elegant" as a violin, it quality of the sample's a lot better. I still hold issue with the lack of phrasing and articulation, but considering they're MIDI files, I won't hold it against Blue too much. I'm just a humble performer and not a composer, so I'm not as intimately familiar with the technical difficulties that may arise from implementing any of the ideas I have in my head to improve the tracks. Maybe if I find myself a decent MIDI editor, I'll take a look at nicol's midi files, which I've acquired.

Ok, I admit that the violin part wasn't perfect, but it wasn't that bad. I would not even mind the clarinet replacement if it wasn't so piss weak. Now most of the song is taken up by tons of synthetic sounding, and really loud chimes and flute sounds. They overpower the clarinet so much and just sound out of place whereas before, they had been secondary to the violin. I will admit that I am slightly prejudice towards the violin since I really like the instrument (having played it myself). I am also no composer but I can tell what I like and don't. If the old violin really was such a problem fine. If the clarinet replacement is more popular, still fine. But at the very least, make it a bit stronger and tone down all the synthetic stuff.

(edit) I would actually be fine with the flutes and chimes being a stronger part of the song (like they are now) if they did not sound so fake.

I surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but I really like the new title card for act one. I never really did like the old one. Furthermore, the new one has several levels of meaning and is drawn well. Good job!

Darroth wrote:I surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but I really like the new title card for act one. I never really did like the old one. Furthermore, the new one has several levels of meaning and is drawn well. Good job!

ditto! the new title art for act 1 is awesome. Pimmy did that, right? looks like her stuff. I hope each act starts with art like that, reflecting the girl Hisao's with and how their relationship is at that point.

Dammit, I should've written this when I finished act 1 V1 3 days ago, instead of reading this thread... Now I can't come up with any coherent comments any more T_T

Though, my biggest praise still lingers in this stupid brain of mine... I absolutely love the music you people have made for KS. Granted, I only played through V1 yet, since I didn't bother to check for an updated version when I decided to install the one I downloaded last year, so I'm kinda hoping the music didn't change much from V1... It honestly doesn't have to, in my humble opinion.

... I'll post some better comments when I've played V3 -_-"


P.S.: favorite girls: Hanako, then Rin, for reasons explained by other fans

P.P.S.: Am I really the only person, out of 54 pages, to note down that Kenji physically resembles Harry Potter? Right down to the scarf... Well, guess that's just me, then ">_>

It's been noted.

EternalLurker wrote:It's been noted.

Right, thanks for pointing that out XD


Anyways... Just got me Hanako's ending in A1V3, seems a bunch of textual mishaps have been cleared up successfully, as well as the getting Lilly's ending when completing Hanako's bug, since I don't have Lilly's ending in the game library (yet)... So yay for that Course, since I missed V2, all that probably got fixed there already, and I just didn't notice till now ">_>
edit: Though, this one still seems a bit awry (from Lilly's ending):

Lilly never sees how fast palm meets my face at her sly accusation

I guess the sentence works like this, but having another "my" before "palm" just seems a little more fitting.

Kenji's tweaked theme is catchy, but the main theme seems to have dropped a few notes in comparison to the V1 version, which comes over as a little jarring to my ears. I think I'd like that original run back...
I don't really like the changes to Shizune's theme, though... A few notes of what sounds like part of the accompaniment stand out too much now.
I'm also not sure I like the tune that plays whenever the nurse shows up. It feels a little unfinished to me...
edit: Oh, that was "Ah Eh I Oh You"... Listening to it out of the jukebox allowed me to place it. I liked it better the way it was before, though the saxophone does have its place, I suppose.

Emi's and Yuuko's new art was a bit getting used to... Though, at least Emi's position after bumping into Hisao on that particular CG seems more natural now, instead of how she already had her legs folded before. No perviness intended *cough* The legblades seem shorter, though, and maybe a little too rounded... I dunno, I don't know much about them legblades. Also, Emi's face seems a bit lopsided now. Which is my only real gripe about her "new" looks. Well, that, and her and Yuuko's new way of being drawn stand out from the rest now... So it could be an idea to either tweak every other character the same way (which seems like a load of work ">_>) or touch up Yuuko and Emi to better resemble the rest of the cast again (which might end up making the done changes somewhat futile)...

(Space reserved for additional comments)

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but my two cents feedback is to clean up the new Emi sprites to have cleaner lines. The scene when she's side by side with Rin are really night and day.

I just noticed two more oddities in act 1, while going for the Shizune end... When going down this particular path, there's no conversation between Mutou and Hisao on the wednesday (day Hisao has lunch with Shizune/Misha and ends up missing classes because of it). But when you go to the artroom for the festival supplies, there's still this:



Teacher didn't say anything, cause Hisao didn't talk to the teacher...


The other discrepancy is in the lack of mention of plywood, until Misha and Shizune meet back up with Hisao outside of the artroom. Hisao just gets handed the list of things to get, and that's that. Minor detail, and possibly only noticable to someone who played through act 1 a few times too many, but it kind of bothers me nonetheless ">_>

I'd edit the image to have that scrollbar so the post is shorter, but I don't know how ">_>
edit: tweaked the image itself instead... Whiiiiich I should've done in the first place ">_>

I also located another oddity in the script, which is only odd when you run with Emi until you get a heart attack:



Hisao calls Rin "unique" when talking with Lilly, after going shopping with her. However, if you get the heart attack scene, Hisao doesn't go shopping with Lilly. Therefore, down this path, Hisao doesn't call Rin "unique" until the saturday afternoon scene where Emi enlists his help, which these two images are excerpts of.


I bet this is the difficulty Aura was speaking of when working with shared scenes between paths...

edit2: same scene, little later:

Same story as above: Rin tells Hisao and Lilly they'll have bad luck for talking about a work in progress in the friday night shopping scene. That scene doesn't happen if you get the heart attack.

Leotrak wrote:I just noticed two more oddities in act 1, while going for the Shizune end... When going down this particular path, there's no conversation between Mutou and Hisao on the wednesday (day Hisao has lunch with Shizune/Misha and ends up missing classes because of it). But when you go to the artroom for the festival supplies, there's still this:

I like how much detail your paying to the VN. Not even I would pay that much into the wording like you have.

Apparently there are those who despise use like TheRageGamer on youtube. But you go to show that there is a lot more invested in this project then a 2D person can see.

Leotrak wrote:Same story as above: Rin tells Hisao and Lilly they'll have bad luck for talking about a work in progress in the friday night shopping scene. That scene doesn't happen if you get the heart attack.

There is still a scene where you're helping Rin paint her mural, and Hisao mentions that it looks good. Rin says that he'll have seven years of bad luck at that point.


Anyway, I just finished Emi's route. Here are my criticisms so far, beginning with a repost from another thread 'cause it didn't really belong there so yeah:

Caesius wrote:Okay, just today downloaded and installed Act 1 V3 and listened to the new version of The Student Council. Composition seems fine, although I do miss the old violin. There are some mastering issues however, like the fact that it peaks at -12 dB, and audible clicking starting around 1:20 into the song:



The -12 dB peak is easily fixed by normalizing to 0 dB, which I would personally prefer to having the rest of the tracks RG'd down to -12. I think the clicking is the most pressing problem with this track though.

Since making this post I have noticed that Cold Iron also has clicking.

Regarding Ah Eh I Oh You, I believe the guitar reverb seems off -- possibly too long and/or pronounced, or the delay is simply maladjusted. Sax notes seem to cut off too quickly and lack reverb. Regardless it seems much better than the original version; is this new version OverCoat's doing or Blue's?

For Emi's sprites, the sketchiness doesn't bother me now that I've seen her sprites in action. For the most part I like them as they are even alongside the other sprites such as Rin's; I think it makes her stand out in a good way. Some sprites have sketchier eyelashes than others however, like the ones where her eyes are closed. I think those particular sprites should have denser eyelashes to be more consistent.

Also, I really don't like her mouth when it looks like some kinda hot dog or bean or whatever. This includes her intro CG and when Hisao keels over; in the latter she doesn't seem genuinely worried. Someone mentioned she looks "sarcastic" and I'd agree; I think in these sprites and in the CG she should be frowning or at least have a more obviously shocked expression. Overall however I love the changes to her sprites; the improvements have allowed me to appreciate her character more.