Katawa Shoujo Forums

Xanatos wrote:

BananaPudding wrote:@Dream

Should someone who has only recently played KS be denied the luxury of sharing their feels with the world, as I'm sure many more people did with complete freedom closer to the VNs release?

Also, "fucktons of internet bullshit" is literally unavoidable as long as the place you are talking about is on said internet.

Any recent players obviously shouldn't talk about their feelings at all or they'll be...Dumtards, I think. Whatever fucking word he just invented.

The fact is KS is a one-shot VN. There will be no expansions or sequels or spinoffs, at least not officially. That limits potential discussions which limits conversation. Even accounting for the topic drift and nonsense, how much mileage can honestly be expected of "What scene made you cry?" or "Which song did you like most?"

And not to ruffle any feathers, but all these people who rage against the lack of "decent conversation" and all that...Where's your decent conversation? It's easy enough to claim impossibility when no attempts are made. Go on. Go start a thread.

It's not like there's nothing to talk about anymore; hell, I made a thread three days ago and it's still getting replies.

Also, I wonder if people that claim the forums are dead realise that the public discussion section is not the only section of this forum. The fanfiction section gets new threads and replies all the time. Yes, I understand it's not for everyone, but it's still alive and kicking strong. I think this also constitutes the KS fandom still being alive.

Walshy12238 wrote:It's not like there's nothing to talk about anymore; hell, I made a thread three days ago and it's still getting replies.

Also, I wonder if people that claim the forums are dead realise that the public discussion section is not the only section of this forum. The fanfiction section gets new threads and replies all the time. Yes, I understand it's not for everyone, but it's still alive and kicking strong. I think this also constitutes the KS fandom still being alive.

True. I've been checking on the fanfic section to make sure it doesn't die before my writing's done. This thread in general seems to be based on Public Discussion and some Facebook groups.

Xanatos wrote:

Walshy12238 wrote:It's not like there's nothing to talk about anymore; hell, I made a thread three days ago and it's still getting replies.

Also, I wonder if people that claim the forums are dead realise that the public discussion section is not the only section of this forum. The fanfiction section gets new threads and replies all the time. Yes, I understand it's not for everyone, but it's still alive and kicking strong. I think this also constitutes the KS fandom still being alive.

True. I've been checking on the fanfic section to make sure it doesn't die before my writing's done. This thread in general seems to be based on Public Discussion and some Facebook groups.

You are correct, sir. I didn't even know about the facebook groups in the first place

Also, I'm hoping the same thing; I really hope the fanfiction section holds out until I get some feedback on my writing

*sigh*

You're all as dissapointing as expected. Not even a decently constructed argument besides one or two posts, what a shame. In any case i'll respond to the valid points raised:

The feelings of some random guy who played this VN are utterly unimportant for me, and i think anyone who has an interest in this forum being more than a chatroom agrees. If a person can't or won't channel their feelings into something that is value or interesting to others i don't see any reason why such a selfish and unoriginal person should be listened to. The argument of "This is the internet anyways so everyone has a right to be retarded" is nothing more than a fallacy related to new technology. Try to shitpost on places like the Cracked forums and you'll soon realize what a decent community and staff can do to users who don't bother to engage in productive discussion.

While there certainly is a limit on potential discussion by virtue of KS being a one-shot VN, i think it is fallacious (for lack of a better term) to assume that we are anywhere close towards said limit... to use an hyperbolic analogy, NGE has been finished for... over 20 years? And yet even now there is still productive discussion going on about it (mostly, admittedly, in the oriental/Japanese side of the web) KS is of course nowhere near as grand, but i'm sure you get the point. While it's true that there's not much discussion value to be had from threads like "What scene made you cry?" or similars, using them as evidence for the argument that there's not much discussion to be had is either a strawman argument or intellectually dishonest.

And finally, it is very right to call us (people who rage agaisnt lack of conversation) on our lack of activity. Of course i can't talk about anyone else but myself: I'm studying illustration 9 hours a day or so, at least when my mother isn't abusing me, and i quite honestly don't have much time (or energy) left after those shifts as to spend 1+ hours writing an analysis post or theory only for the thread to be filled with shitposting or waifu faggotry. And if there are some decent posts in there, communication would be practically impossible (or at least very annoying) with all the spam and noise. If i were to spend that much time into an analysis i would do it for the Eva forum or wiki i'm a part of. At least there i can have a guarantee that my "job" wouldn't go to waste... Not as much at least.

I hope it isn't dying, I just made this account!

I'll concede the point about the internet not needing to be full of shitposts, while adding the fact that what constitutes a "shitpost" is highly subjective.

Dream wrote: If i were to spend that much time into an analysis i would do it for the Eva forum or wiki i'm a part of. At least there i can have a guarantee that my "job" wouldn't go to waste... Not as much at least.

I think doing any kind of analysis for any reason other than love of the subject, reguardless of how it will be reacted to, is not a good one.
(although this is completely my own opinion)

and lastly, I'll just leave this here:

Dream wrote:The feelings of some random guy who played this VN are utterly unimportant for me.

Dream wrote:i don't see any reason why such a selfish [sic] person should be listened to.

Dream wrote:The feelings of some random guy who played this VN are utterly unimportant for me.

Dream wrote:i don't see any reason why such a selfish [sic] person should be listened to.

So basically you complain about a lack of conversations while actively refusing to create conversations, then call the people who do try to converse selfish just because you yourself don't care what they have to say. Ironic and illogical.

At least the so-called selfish people are trying something rather than going "Oh, I could do an hour-long analysis, but I won't because it might get spammed possibly maybe at some point in time perhaps." ...What they're trying is overdone but it's something.

Just maybe, perhaps, there would be less "spam and noise" if you actually came out with some of that fabled decent conversation you so crave. Anyone can avoid actually addressing their own complaints by using some weak excuse but it ultimately just sounds like a guy who has no actual ideas on how to fill the lack of conversation, but still wants to complain about it.

You think it's a fallacy to claim there's nothing more to discuss? I believe the saying is "Put up or shut up."

Xanatos wrote:

Dream wrote:The feelings of some random guy who played this VN are utterly unimportant for me.

Dream wrote:i don't see any reason why such a selfish [sic] person should be listened to.

So basically you complain about a lack of conversations while actively refusing to create conversations, then call the people who do try to converse selfish just because you yourself don't care what they have to say. Ironic and illogical.

At least the so-called selfish people are trying something rather than going "Oh, I could do an hour-long analysis, but I won't because it might get spammed possibly maybe at some point in time perhaps." ...What they're trying is overdone but it's something.

Just maybe, perhaps, there would be less "spam and noise" if you actually came out with some of that fabled decent conversation you so crave. I believe the saying is "Put up or shut up."

Xan, I love you. I was going to give a reply to Dream, but I know my current mood (fucking irritated at things freezing on me) would have made my response mean, vicious and generally asshole-ish. You eloquently put what I wanted to say, but couldn't due to current predicaments

When i talk about shitposting i refer to any sort of post that doesn't advance the conversation in any way nor does present any interesting or useful content to the thread or forum, generally with self-referential content. As far as i'm aware this is roughly the general definition given to the term. The goalpost shifting of the "subjective" is pretty amusing because in my experience it's generally used as a slightly more elegant version of "Yeah, well, that's like, your opinion dude" and if you think that's in any way useful...

I think doing any kind of analysis for any reason other than love of the subject, reguardless of how it will be reacted to, is not a good one.

I'll admit, however, i'm not very sure of what you mean here. I think you mean that any analysis without an overt adoration of the subject is inherently bad (whether you mean this would make for bad/flawed analysis or unpleasant one is honestly beyond me), and if it's the case i would honestly disagree... Analysis is more intellectual exercise than anything else and passion for the subject is, while certainly a great and important thing to have, not in any way inherently necessary for a good analysis. And if this just your opinion you shouldn't be posting it here... Don't pussyfoot around it, man.

Regarding my alleged hypocrisy, it is pretty valid under more than a few points of view and i would have likely agreed a year or so in the past. Now, i could post this article (i already did) but i think i've been a bit too lazy, so i'll try to summarize my argument on why there is not a contradiction in there: Self-centered gushing about superficial aspects (so called "feels") of the VN are nothing more than trash produced for the sake of emotional (self) pleasure, and as thus have nothing of value within them. The gall to think this is something that people would want to see, and that the forum deserves to have such waste of text hosted within earns my absolute contempt and i find it pretty much insulting. It is important to note that such a hateful reaction towards what i find as shitposting or selfish behavior is due to relatively recent outlooks on life and distaste for the kind of person i used to be as well as having a specific idea on what a discussion forum should be... The fact that the spammers were told there was a forum specifically created so that they could talk to their heart's content (and then refused to use it) reduced any dubious sympathy they had in my eyes to nothing.

As for the "so-called selfish people [that] are trying something" don't take this the wrong way, but... Who cares? It's just shitposting. In the first page of the discussion section alone i can see only around 5 topics (not counting stickies) that are strongly related to KS and would actually be missed if the entire first page were to be nuked. I think that says a lot about the "effort" the so-called selfish people put. In the end it's not even so much that they don't care but that they simply are not interested in matters that, to me, are nothing more than petty bullshit.

Just maybe, perhaps, there would be less "spam and noise" if you actually came out with some of that fabled decent conversation you so crave. Anyone can avoid actually addressing their own complaints by using some weak excuse but it ultimately just sounds like a guy who has no actual ideas on how to fill the lack of conversation, but still wants to complain about it.

This is, however, a good point and i don't have any real excuse for it. As you basically say it's easy to complain and ought to start the change i want around here or anywhere. Truth is, i simply don't care much anymore. My days of passion for KS are long gone and i have long since given up on this forum being anything more than a glorified chatroom. I'm trying to put my all into art/illustration and as a consequence don't have as much time and energy for secondary interests as i used to have (not that that's a bad thing at all ) so if i'm going to spend some time in a longpost it's no surprise i'm going to do it in the place that has a lesser chance of getting spammed "possibly maybe at some point in time perhaps". Combine to that the fact that this discussion has happened many times in the past and most if not all of the spammers seem to have the intention or desire or even change a little (i think some of them basically told me to go fuck myself in PMs) and you can see why i'm not exactly enthusiastic to try and make the foundation for a possible change in here that is *very* unlikely to take fruit.

This is shit, i have 1000+ pages of reading and exercises to do instead of debating forum politics on internet. I guess i really am a masochist.

I dunno man. I've come back after a long while off the forums and there seems to be substantial number of newer poster. Also don't forget that just because they don't post on the official forums does not make them not a fan. Maybe 10% of all League of Legends players use the official forums on the website, there are tons and tons of other ways to talk about it.

While there is no new content and never will be, there will always be new people to find the game and try it out. After all the entire premise is pretty interesting, as well as its infamous development team.

Dream wrote:

I think doing any kind of analysis for any reason other than love of the subject, reguardless of how it will be reacted to, is not a good one.

I'll admit, however, i'm not very sure of what you mean here

I'm not really talking about the quality of said analysis, moreso the point or purpose. Basically I think I'm trying to say that it seemed like you were saying that you didn't want to make analysis posts because people either wouldn't care or would not provide discussion. While I think that if you were going to do some kind of analysis like that in the first place, then it doesn't matter what the response would be, you would be satisfied in just doing the analysis.

Dream wrote: And if this just your opinion you shouldn't be posting it here... Don't pussyfoot around it, man.

I also disagree that opinions "shouldn't" be posted

Dream wrote: Self-centered gushing about superficial aspects (so called "feels") of the VN are nothing more than trash produced for the sake of emotional (self) pleasure, and as thus have nothing of value within them. The gall to think this is something that people would want to see, and that the forum deserves to have such waste of text hosted within earns my absolute contempt and i find it pretty much insulting.

Again, I disagree. That kind of thing IS something that I like to see and put value in. Maybe I'm the minority, but you can't say that absolutely no one enjoys stuff like that.

Dream wrote: as well as having a specific idea on what a discussion forum should be

But how do you know what a discussion forum "should" be? How do you know that your idea is correct? Why should your idea be the best and not someone elses?

Dream wrote:My days of passion for KS are long gone and i have long since given up on this forum being anything more than a glorified chatroom.

So...Why are you still here? You have no more interest in the subject or community...Why do you stay? Something keeps you. What is it?

I shudder to think what illustrations are born of the mind of a Silent Hill fan...

@Dream: The wonders of being a student. BA, Master's or PhD?

Well, there are still new players for the game, and new forum members, I for one suggested the game to a friend of mine so I wouldn't say that it is actively diminishing, it's just that it does not have the hype of its release. Also just check the fan works board, there is still a lot of new stuff.
Also, about the ''feels dumtardery '' accusation, I don't get it @Dream, isn't that natural? The visual novel is practically made to stimulate feelings and thoughts that strongly relate to its concept. You cannot just avoid this. Of course, posting about an actual analysis of your feelings, why they are related to KS and what this is telling for one's person is one good and constructive thing and posting silly superficial fantasies is another, which is what truly vexes you I guess.

As long as people keep finding this game, there will probably be people wanting to talk about it. Personally, once I'd seen all the endings that would come out of the choices I'd make in any given path, I cannot see myself replaying the game in the near future. I'm still thinking about it more than is usual for a game and some things I took away from it I'll keep, and I'm still quite interested in hearing about various aspects of the development process, so for quite some time I'm still actively fandomming around, if you will. But at a certain point I'll be done asking questions and browsing forums. Then again, I do see myself revisting this game on a yearly basis or so. Just like I reread my favorite books over and over again until they're so worn out I actually need to get new copies of them.