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Actually I really really like Shizune's personality. She has enough flaws to be quite believable, but at the same time is overdone enough to serve as a character in a fictional story wanting to convey a specific story and feelings to the reader.

When talking about that ideal, many people forgot that steel has to be in somewhere, although some men do want you to forget that. Cool to friends, harsh to enemies. Right now, Shizune is just harsh to people in general.

Her hard head is the trait being played up. She acknowledges it, but honest to goodness, she doesn't know how to handle it, although she wants to.

YZQ wrote:When talking about that ideal, many people forgot that steel has to be in somewhere, although some men do want you to forget that. Cool to friends, harsh to enemies. Right now, Shizune is just harsh to people in general.

Her hard head is the trait being played up. She acknowledges it, but honest to goodness, she doesn't know how to handle it, although she wants to.

The part that puts me off is not the Steel part, is the Yamato Nadeshiko part.

Shizune's is not hard with others, she's competitive, if she was harsh with people she would not try and make friends with the mopey new kid (Hisao), nor she would still hang out with Misha after Misha's love confession.. Methinks that she's is not vulnerable like Emi, Lilly or Hanako, she is just a normal girl that likes to compete, but unlike Emi she does not have a hidden angst. Maybe people are looking for a fragile girl to protect (take a look at Hanako's Fandom).

Tomate wrote:

YZQ wrote:When talking about that ideal, many people forgot that steel has to be in somewhere, although some men do want you to forget that. Cool to friends, harsh to enemies. Right now, Shizune is just harsh to people in general.

Her hard head is the trait being played up. She acknowledges it, but honest to goodness, she doesn't know how to handle it, although she wants to.

The part that puts me off is not the Steel part, is the Yamato Nadeshiko part.

Shizune's is not hard with others, she's competitive, if she was harsh with people she would not try and make friends with the mopey new kid (Hisao), nor she would still hang out with Misha after Misha's love confession.. Methinks that she's is not vulnerable like Emi, Lilly or Hanako, she is just a normal girl that likes to compete, but unlike Emi she does not have a hidden angst. Maybe people are looking for a fragile girl to protect (take a look at Hanako's Fandom).

Her "vulnerability" will depend on how you interpret her relationship with her father. Personally, I do think Jigoro had a point in putting down the Student Council. Leaders don't do all the work themselves. They delegate, and take ultimate responsibility. As such, I do think Shizune wanted her father's approval. Father and daughter are hard headed.

Jigoro refuses to learn sign language, and Shizune refuses to learn lip-reading. A fic once brought up the idea that the reason why Jigoro is acting like a jerk is that he wants Shizune to be able to adapt and survive in a world (Japanese society) which looks down on disabilities. I go along that train of thought.

YZQ wrote:

Tomate wrote:

YZQ wrote:When talking about that ideal, many people forgot that steel has to be in somewhere, although some men do want you to forget that. Cool to friends, harsh to enemies. Right now, Shizune is just harsh to people in general.

Her hard head is the trait being played up. She acknowledges it, but honest to goodness, she doesn't know how to handle it, although she wants to.

The part that puts me off is not the Steel part, is the Yamato Nadeshiko part.

Shizune's is not hard with others, she's competitive, if she was harsh with people she would not try and make friends with the mopey new kid (Hisao), nor she would still hang out with Misha after Misha's love confession.. Methinks that she's is not vulnerable like Emi, Lilly or Hanako, she is just a normal girl that likes to compete, but unlike Emi she does not have a hidden angst. Maybe people are looking for a fragile girl to protect (take a look at Hanako's Fandom).

Her "vulnerability" will depend on how you interpret her relationship with her father. Personally, I do think Jigoro had a point in putting down the Student Council. Leaders don't do all the work themselves. They delegate, and take ultimate responsibility. As such, I do think Shizune wanted her father's approval.

I see it as her way or trying stick it to the man, shes competitive and so on not to earn a pat on her head and a "good job, daughter", she just tries to win things to show that she can do it despite her handicaps.

Tomate wrote: I see it as her way or trying stick it to the man, shes competitive and so on not to earn a pat on her head and a "good job, daughter", she just tries to win things to show that she can do it despite her handicaps.

Problem is: she is not quite getting there, and she knows it.

Shizune's is not hard with others, she's competitive, if she was harsh with people she would not try and make friends with the mopey new kid (Hisao), nor she would still hang out with Misha after Misha's love confession.. Methinks that she's is not vulnerable like Emi, Lilly or Hanako, she is just a normal girl that likes to compete, but unlike Emi she does not have a hidden angst. Maybe people are looking for a fragile girl to protect (take a look at Hanako's Fandom).

She IS hard with others and being competitive has nothing to do with that. Shizune likes to make friends, yes, but on HER terms only. Days spent hanging out with Shizune don't start like "Hey guys, what would you like to do today? I have some great plans. What are yours?". They're more like: "I have a great idea on what we're gonna do today. Who's coming along?". In other words, people who want to be her friends can either let her drag them along for the ride or stay behind. She doesn't stop to concern herself with what others think. That's why she remained friends with Misha. Even after being rejected Misha was still willing to follow Shizune everywhere and act like her sidekick.

Lilly points out at some point that during their shared student council days, Shizune'd hardly stop to ask others for their opinions...she'd just be pacing around the room throwing out ambitious plan after ambitious plan. Lilly also mentions that for this reason, Shizune usually surrounded herself with "yes"-men. That's probably a bit harsh on Lilly's part, but it makes sense in a way...if you're permanently in competition mode, any time someone disagrees with you, it becomes a competition and aiming to reach a consensus would be aiming for a draw and therefore unacceptable. Any disagreement can only end if one side comes out on top and the other side concedes. That permanent competitive attitude can quickly become very grating because you get the impression the other side is only listening to your arguments in an attempt to figure out how to best dismantle them and not stop to consider their merit... In other words, Shizune has severe trouble slowing the heck down and listening to people. (which is kind of fitting in a way) And she's somewhat aware of that to some extent, but just can't help herself. (just like Lilly can't help being mothering)

That, and not because she's not fragile enough, is probably the reason not everyone likes Shizune. There's nothing wrong with competitiveness; three out of the five main girls have a fairly strong sense of competition. (Shizune, Emi and Hanako) But only with Shizune is that sense of competition present even if the situation DOESN'T call for it and that's why she's the only one of the five girls whose sense of competition becomes less an attractive trait and more a blatant personality flaw.

The sad thing is that ultimately, she knows that she has this flaw, but she doesn't know how to deal with it. I was wondering about what is out of the norm for her as a character when I realised that she can't lip-read. Lip reading to a sighted deaf-mute is bread and butter stuff. Combined with her refusal to use her handphone to type out text and show it to others as a form of communication, I started to think her stubbornness is reaching ridiculous levels.

Lip reading isn't exactly a good substitute for being able to hear words. Even an experienced lip-reader probably has to strain to pick up more than 50% of what people say. It's far from the fluent form of communication media pretend it to be. That said, I suspect Shizune simply doesn't have the patience to hold entire conversations in written text...it IS a slow-paced form of communciation, very slow-paced and Shizune likes to live in the fast lane. Understandable to some degree, but it does keep Shizune more isolated than she'd like to be.

Lip reading isn't exactly a good substitute for being able to hear words. Even an experienced lip-reader probably has to strain to pick up more than 50% of what people say. It's far from the fluent form of communication media pretend it to be.

I don't have the Japanese figures, but in the English language, only about 30% of what's said can be picked up from lip movements.

Even then, simple things can make it more difficult. Speakers that don't look directly at the deaf person are naturally harder to read. Also, talking loudly makes it more difficult for a person to determine what's being said, at it distorts the mouth movements. Also, it's harder to read people with facial hair, as the mustache or beard can obscure the movement of their lips.

Do you see how this might be a problem for Shizune?

Guest Poster wrote:Lip reading isn't exactly a good substitute for being able to hear words. Even an experienced lip-reader probably has to strain to pick up more than 50% of what people say. It's far from the fluent form of communication media pretend it to be. That said, I suspect Shizune simply doesn't have the patience to hold entire conversations in written text...it IS a slow-paced form of communciation, very slow-paced and Shizune likes to live in the fast lane. Understandable to some degree, but it does keep Shizune more isolated than she'd like to be.

I can take the "less than perfect" part. But yeah, still think her hardheadedness is preventing her from reaching a compromise.

With Lily, another fan fic pointed out that they could use Helen Keller's form of sign language that she used with Anne Sullivan.

Guest Poster wrote:I suspect Shizune simply doesn't have the patience to hold entire conversations in written text...it IS a slow-paced form of communciation

Indeed. I sometimes use it to talk to my Japanese friend and it's really slow compared to talking. ^^'

OtakuNinja wrote:

Guest Poster wrote:I suspect Shizune simply doesn't have the patience to hold entire conversations in written text...it IS a slow-paced form of communciation

Indeed. I sometimes use it to talk to my Japanese friend and it's really slow compared to talking. ^^'

She has to compromise somewhere. I mean: That is how people chat without voice software online. Also, many people don't give enough thoughts into what they say. That bit of thinking before typing can be very sensible.

Btw, why did this thread about Lilly turn into a thread about Shizune? I have to do something about this...

I choose you, Silentcook!

OtakuNinja wrote:Btw, why did this thread about Lilly turn into a thread about Shizune? I have to do something about this...

I choose you, Silentcook!

Goes back to Hisao's line about them being Not-So-Different.