Katawa Shoujo Forums

TheSongofRaven wrote:

Embers? Who on Earth recommends Embers to someone who clearly doesn't want spoilers? Embers is the last entry in the Assassin's Creed II timeline, the final bits of Ezio's story. DON'T watch that until you've played all the main Ezio games (Assassin's Creed II, Brotherhood, Revelations) or read all the Ezio novels (Renaissance, Brotherhood, Revelations).

Indeed, and i think you miss The Secret Crusade (if you want to know more about Altair)

I was referring to the set of novels about Ezio. Anyway, we're going off topic, so we better stop this AC discussion now.

Erthel wrote:What's wrong with Rin? In her path, he learned to accept himself as he is. It's hard to catch that, because everyone wants to change, but it's probably the most difficult acomplishment. I don't say it's the "best", but its a very good ending for him.

Dr. Robotnik wrote: The decision now is whether or not being a better person benefits him more or less than being a successful person.

This is a perfectly fair distinction. A lot of us have been assuming that Hisao having control of his health and decisions is top priority. However, he isn't going to live anywhere close to forever, regardless of changes to his lifestyle. It's not like he's going to collapse at 21, of course. He might get his heart to a state of fitness that lets him live past 50, and then get knocked over at a subway station and have all that work amount to nothing. Should he go for a more noble life?

Should he act as the support for Lilly or Hanako, even though he may very well pass on early and leave them crushed? Lilly might be able to take it and move on, and Emi might be depressingly ready for it to happen, but I don't know about Hanako.

Xiious wrote: Therefore your pointless clicking accomplishes nothing. Hmm....what do buttons taste like?

Tastes like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....."

Press that a number of times when I reach the bad ending or get obliterated in Company of Heroes. Makes you feel better.

Megumeru wrote:

Xiious wrote: Therefore your pointless clicking accomplishes nothing. Hmm....what do buttons taste like?

Tastes like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....."

Press that a number of times when I reach the bad ending or get obliterated in Company of Heroes. Makes you feel better.

i dont know what no tastes like.

i might use that button when i fail at something pree hard.

also, i dont know about best ending for Hiseo, but nowadays im leaning in for a best ending for me. Rin obviously<3 XD

gRaViJa wrote:No he does not. A morning jog isn't "pushing the body" by far. Running a marathon in 2h30m would be, a morning jog is healthy and will benefit him for sure. Ya think Nurse would encourage him to run if it's bad for him?

This has nothing to do with Hisao's body, his heart cannot keep up with it. What he is increasing with repeated exorcise is his hearts tolerance for physical activity, or more specifically his hearts ability to stop it from going into "Shock" from overexertion. If he continues to exorcise daily, in addition to the physical lifestyle Emi will lead him on he will not be able to handle it in any way beyond the short term.

Keep it noted, we're talking about which ending is the best for Hisao, not which we liked the most or which had the best story leading up to the end.

Edit: Also just realized I could have been the reason for the simple misunderstanding in my explanation for Emi's problems. You can replace most parts where I mention him pushing his "Body" with his heart more specifically.

Joeshmoelb wrote:

gRaViJa wrote:

Keep it noted, we're talking about which ending is the best for Hisao, not which we liked the most or which had the best story leading up to the end.

Edit: Also just realized I could have been the reason for the simple misunderstanding in my explanation for Emi's problems. You can replace most parts where I mention him pushing his "Body" with his heart more specifically.

Yay to the fact that this thread is still active! ^_^ i just joined today. Anyhoo...
I've only played Lily and Emi's good endings so far, and i have to say that Emi's is the one that's better for him, even though i liked Lily's better. This is due to the fact that Emi drives Hisao forward to try things, dangerous as they may be, and allows him to keep up. The running and lifestyle she brings with her help Hisao in the long run, though i think He's happier with Lily.

Joeshmoelb wrote:

gRaViJa wrote:No he does not. A morning jog isn't "pushing the body" by far. Running a marathon in 2h30m would be, a morning jog is healthy and will benefit him for sure. Ya think Nurse would encourage him to run if it's bad for him?

This has nothing to do with Hisao's body, his heart cannot keep up with it. What he is increasing with repeated exorcise is his hearts tolerance for physical activity, or more specifically his hearts ability to stop it from going into "Shock" from overexertion. If he continues to exorcise daily, in addition to the physical lifestyle Emi will lead him on he will not be able to handle it in any way beyond the short term.

Keep it noted, we're talking about which ending is the best for Hisao, not which we liked the most or which had the best story leading up to the end.

Edit: Also just realized I could have been the reason for the simple misunderstanding in my explanation for Emi's problems. You can replace most parts where I mention him pushing his "Body" with his heart more specifically.

I agree with this for the most part. I however voted for Lilly's path as that has him on a clear career path with someone who we can pretty well assume marries him not long after the story ends. I would think/hope that after the last heart attack, he would become motivated to talk to Emi and become a running partner with her while dating Lilly.
The main reasons for the issues he has in Lilly's route, is the sedentary lifestyle and forgetting his medications. If he had even increased his physical activity and dietary levels by following Emi's plans, he would have weathered the arrhythmic incidents far better and been able to keep going in the ending sequence.

A tie between Hanako's and Emi's...

What Emi did was basically puting Hisao in a good shape, so his heart got stronger after the running. Besides, he mades the science club and works for his future, like Enemy said. However, I think Emi would be at some moment ending up killing him...

With Hanako he worked up his problems. Even if he didn't had an idea for his future, like Hanako, they both end pretty well because they were basically the same. The only thing is Hanako's nature. I think Hisao wouldn't handle it at some point, if he doesn't get used to...

I don't know why you'd say that the exercise would make Hisao worse and not better. Aside from his minor attack the second time out with Emi, he doesn't even get chest pains once he gets into the regimen. Also, I'll admit I'm not a health or medical professional, but doesn't a sedentary lifestyle actually cause more risk of heart attack, and not less?

Exercise is, basically, causing (minor) damage to the parts of your body you depend on for exercise, so that when they recover, your body has adapted ever so slightly more to the sensation. Hisao basically is working his heart tissue up to be able to handle bigger shocks. And according to what's being said in the game, and how people in general live, it looks like he's very well within a good balance of exercise without overexertion. I find it... difficult... to believe that working out with Emi, as he was asked to do by his medical advice, is doing him long-term harm.

That said... from a purely physical health point of view, I'd obviously say Emi is the first choice for Hisao. But I wouldn't call her the best choice overall, perhaps because of my own personal feelings and experiences on someone who played the same mindgames that Emi did with Hisao. I see the "good ending" as ... unrealistic (though logically I can't really dispute it being possible. It may just be bias) and I can't shake the feeling that she may yet snap back and shut him out later in time. The important stuff she's told him in that ending would be the same things that her mom and Nurse already knew - and she herself said before her ending that she can't and won't rely on them.

I'd call Rin and Lilly's endings the worst for Hisao, though. Rin is confusing at best, and while their good ending seems to have them quite happy with each other, I don't recall any of the setup you see in other arcs about having Hisao make a career of his own. And you only get Rin's good ending if she tanks her own budding career. (Considering how stressed it was making her, though, without giving her the results she really wanted from doing art in the first place, it honestly was way better for her to tank it.) But, basically, neither of them has any direction in life by that point. And from the point of view on Hisao's health - I think this is the route where he does the least exercise of all.
Lilly, well, that doesn't need a whole lot of explanation. Hisao's heart has likely suffered some major damage with all the attacks he had, especially the one in the airport. Even if it doesn't show up immediately, I'd be surprised if it doesn't cause problems a few years down the line. Besides that, though, her attitude to the relationship is just as worrying to me as Emi's. Didn't she decide, before she confessed to Hisao, that she was going to go live with her family? If she had opened up to Hisao about leaving before confessing (or shortly after - all things considered the day she confessed was pretty stressful and emotional, so, it would be fairly forgivable), it would be entirely different from Hisao only finding out because someone else warned him weeks later. And, of course, despite Hisao's, Hanako's, Akira's, and even her own feelings, she ends up leaving anyway... unless Hisao nearly kills himself screaming for her. I get that Hisao treated her a lot like an emotional crutch in that relationship without supporting her himself, but she never gives a hint that she's conflicted about anything until Kenji accidentally knocks her down. It's incredibly difficult to support someone that not only doesn't tell or show you that they need it, but is adept at hiding their body language about it anyway. (Again, though, I may be a bit biased. Hits a little close to home - the idea that someone is working through a decision to just say "I'm going to end the relationship based on this, and your input matters so little you didn't even need to know")

I would rate the relationship with Shizune very highly. The Student Council work Hisao does seems like it can be physically tough at times - probably nowhere as good as jogging with Emi would be for him, but still better than nothing. Shizune's drive and sense of responsibility probably keep Hisao on his medications more thoroughly than in any other route, as well (barring Emi's. Maybe). And while their romance doesn't seem as strong as any of the other four, their underlying friendship seems stronger and much more stable than Hisao's does with... well, anyone else in any arc of the game. Assuming you don't cheat on her. Hisao also gets along more strongly with the support cast (including the girls he's not focusing on) in Shizune's arc than in any other. Kenji, especially. Both Shizune and Hisao - and while we're at it, Misha, too - all have strong ideas of just what they'll do with their lives after graduation. I can admit that Shizune and Hisao seem like they might be getting a little distant at the end of her arc, and the possibility that they'll split up is there. But it's the only ending, period, where if Hisao does break up with his love interest, it would be completely friendly. No hard feelings at all. And it would definitely leave them open to getting back together once they've gotten their personal lives set up. That's assuming that they break up at all, too, which they very well may not.
Honestly, the only negative thing I can see about Shizune's route is "it's not as romantic". But while the player may not be that happy about it, Hisao doesn't seem to have any complaints about it - there's no inner monologue, there's no getting irritated with Shizune, nothing like that. Unless, of course, Hisao sleeps with Misha. Which... is far less romantic anyway.

I also rate the Hanako relationship very highly as well.
Assuming that she doesn't dump Hisao as she gains more of her own self-confidence, as some people have suggested could happen. (I don't happen to agree with that - ditching somebody who helped you become who you are, who has proven that they care for you when you're at your worst, who you know would never deliberately harm or take advantage of you, and who you know you mean just as much to, in turn ... that seems like an epic level dick move. Hanako, when she gets over her shyness for brief periods in the arcs, seems to genuinely care about people. Lilly's worry about her aunt snaps Hanako out of her dark birthday-related withdrawal enough to worry about someone else... and Hanako while drunk only wants to be with Hisao and Lilly. Basically, I don't think she is selfish enough at her core to even ever want to throw aside such a relationship, much less actually do it. Not without some sort of negative trigger between her and Hisao.)
But, basically, it's in Lilly's and Hanako's arcs that Hisao seems to get the second-most amount of exercise that he does compared to other arcs, just because of their frequent trips to the town or through the city they make on foot. And unlike Lilly's route, he actually seems to remember to take his damn meds in this one. Also, before he and Hanako kick off their relationship, he has, at Lilly's urging, started focusing more on improving himself. Has realized the importance of doing it. Though between the exams, the ill-advised sleeping together, and the shortest timeline of all the arcs (except Kenji's), it's hard to say whether he would end up keeping his body in some better shape... but with both Hanako and Lilly clearly worrying, with his difficulty going through the city his last time out there with Hanako, and the strongest resolve to be more independent of all the arcs, it's fairly possible that he will end up doing something about it before too long.
And, yeah, Hisao's decision to improve himself seems strongest in Hanako's arc than in any other. While he works harder on his body in Emi's, that's less about improving himself, and more about spending time with Emi or continuing to not die. Though Shizune's Hisao comes fairly close, even if he's really only molding himself after her example. (Aside from Shizune's 'failure' to really help Misha's feelings, it's actually a damn good example, anyway.) It's in these two arcs that Hisao would probably be at least decently well off even if the relationships failed. In Hanako's, he's resolving himself to do better in school, and while he hasn't hit on the idea of getting into the sciences yet, we know from the other arcs that Mutou is going to bring it up with Hisao before too long. (Remember, Hanako's timeline seems to be the shortest.) Hisao's marks are probably best off in this arc and Shizune's, as well.


I suppose, to sum it up - Shizune's route works out the best for a Hisao that is fairly self-confident when he comes to Yamaku. Hanako's works best for a Hisao that starts out a bit more withdrawn and uncertain. Emi's works out pretty well for Hisao, but her attitude towards relationships and other people in general is worrying (at least to me). Lilly's is likely to have caused Hisao some long-term heart problems, and there's some serious weakness to her character in regards to her leaving. (Not only was she shown to be able to be incredibly independent when she needs to be, but she had many reasons to stay even before getting into a relationship with Hisao... and it all wasn't enough to have her reject a "summons" from parents that she and Akira seem to have some lingering resentment for.) Rin and Hisao, while they seem to have worked through lots of issues in order to really draw together, are much more at loose ends in that arc than in any other - and there's still no guarantee that they're going to last. All things considered, there's a good chance they won't. And Hisao's exercise is at the lowest of all the arcs in that one.

So I'd vote for both Shizune and Hanako - if I could vote for both, anyway.