Katawa Shoujo Forums

One of the great things of that whole act is how many different ways it can be interpreted

Eurobeatjester wrote:One of the great things of that whole act is how many different ways it can be interpreted

That's why this thread is called a 'Headcanon Thread'.

dewelar wrote:Yes, subsequent events show that she wasn't as ready as she thought she was, but that's neither here nor there.

Is anyone ever as ready as they think they are? Not that that really matters here. I pretty much interpret it the same way you did, that she wasn't necessarily expecting it to happen, but prepared (more or less) and maybe hoping for it to happen. Probably part of her was afraid he would run away too.

Eurobeatjester wrote:So to answer your question, that's the motivation. She wants to open up to Hisao the same way he did earlier in the act. That's it. Nothing sexual to it.

That answers nothing. The motivation I'm asking about is why she went out of her way to lead him all the way to her room and strip in the first place. If all she wanted to do was tell her story, she could have done that most anywhere, and without stripping, either.

Not to mention this: "There are a number of girls in the common room on the ground floor, and Hanako presses herself to my side once more as we pass them. I expect her to break off, but instead she continues to cling onto me as we walk towards the stairway. Something about the way she's holding onto me feels… different from the usual." She stays clinging to him all the way to her door. That's as clear a sign of affection as you're going to get barring Something Big Happening, which of course it immediately does.

When they get into the room, Hisao jumps to the conclusion that Hanako may be trying to seduce him

You keep using that word, "seduce". Making a move is a long way from seduction.

Anyway, what he wonders (not jumps to a conclusion about, either) is whether she has sex ("that") in mind. Only after she's standing nude before him does he (very sensibly) come to the conclusion that that is indeed what's up. How anyone can possibly interpret such an action any other way is beyond me, and I'm practically the original Dense Protagonist Who Doesn't Notice When Girls Are Coming On To Him.

Besides that, what does she do once nude, and having finished telling her story? Get dressed again and send him on his way, mission accomplished? Absolutely not. She:

• Apologizes for "making [him] see this", and how she's "not pretty like Lilly". Why would that come up unless she was steering toward something that requires physical attraction?
• Stands there in the nude, not covering herself, looking at Hisao "for a long time", visibly emotional. Unless Hanako's just spontaneously turned nudist, it should be plain as day what's in her mind.
• Does nothing to stop his touch nor his kiss nor his undressing, nor gives any sign of objection to them. Other parts of the story should make it clear that she has no problem with objecting to things she finds objectionable, or even mildly surprising — I'VEGOTTOGODOSOMETHING and GET OUT OF MY ROOM I HATE YOU being but two options. In a situation as delicate as this, a shake of her head would have been enough to send him packing.

After replaying the scene again, I just can't see Hanako choosing to use that method - reliving the most painful experience of her life - as a means to the end of trying to seduce Hisao.

She doesn't. But telling him about it has to happen one way or another if they're ever going to be together. And getting physically intimate means him seeing her fully nude, which, as a practical matter, means he's going to have to see the full extent of the damage to her body as well. So, doing all three things together, closely related as they are, is a natural choice.

(As a side note, I have in fact been intimate with someone with extensive bodily scarring, and this is pretty much how the first time went down as well. Story plus scar-showing, immediately followed by sexytimes, all in one batch. It's difficult to arrange it any other way, when you think about it.)

Another thing here that makes me think this way is that Painful History plays through the entire scene.

That's Hanako's theme song. (I'm not kidding.)

Even Hisao can't wrap his head around it and wonders if she just went along with it because she's so submissive.

That "submissive" line is Hisao being dumb. Hanako is not submissive. She's avoidant. A submissive person would do as she's told, not run away/yell/hide/duck out of the middle of class/et cetera.

I think we both agree that she is referring about sleeping with him, but where we differ is when she made that decision.

You think she made it before they got to the room and that's why she brought him there. I think she made the decision after Hisao kissed her.

Just so I have this straight: it is your belief that she led him to her room and got naked purely for the purpose of displaying a scar to accompany her storytelling, thinking that would be the end of it and they'd say goodnight, but then Hisao caught her off-guard by misinterpreting nudity as sexual (!), and so, being shocked, she quickly formulated this "sex as view-changer" plan and decided to go with it at that instant?

I need to confirm this because I'm having a very difficult time thinking I'm reading you right.

Atario wrote: She doesn't. But telling him about it has to happen one way or another if they're ever going to be together. And getting physically intimate means him seeing her fully nude, which, as a practical matter, means he's going to have to see the full extent of the damage to her body as well. So, doing all three things together, closely related as they are, is a natural choice.

(As a side note, I have in fact been intimate with someone with extensive bodily scarring, and this is pretty much how the first time went down as well. Story plus scar-showing, immediately followed by sexytimes, all in one batch. It's difficult to arrange it any other way, when you think about it.)

I can confirm this. I rarely show people what my body looks like, and when I do...it's usually during and after sex. I'm lucky enough that most of my scarring is on my back and hips, and thus very few people see it, since I don't make it a habit to walk around shirtless. Going to the beach with my closest friends was pretty fucked up. I came really really close to just not even going in the water because I'd have to reveal my back, even though I really like swimming.

Showing something like that, that you're extremely sensitive and self-conscious about, is an intimate experience. Especially when you've had extremely negative experiences because of such a thing. It's showing someone all sorts of trust and affection...very much like having sex for the first time.

Why does it seem like every time this tangent is going to end on "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree", it morphs back into a debate? I visit this thread to see the contents of other people's weird headcanons, not this crap..

Edit: So that I'm not just complaining instead of contributing to the thread myself, here's a kinda messed-up idea from my headcanon that may or may not be logistically or chronologically possible:

Rin's father is not her biological father. Rin's actual father was Sae's late husband, who had a brief fling with Rin's mother before he married Sae.

Yeah, people are entitled to their own headcanons. The point about headcanons is that they're in your own head. They aren't in a competition with other people's headcanons. If you took your headcanon out and wrote fanfic or did artwork for it, then it'd be subject to discussion like any other fanfic or artwork.

Perhaps the best thing is to say, "I personally believe this... blah blah blah" and to respond, "My belief is this... blah blah blah" without saying why you don't (or can't) believe someone else's headcanon. Otherwise it devolves into something suspiciously like religion, and we already mostly have internet discourse rules for civil outcomes in such cases.

Valjean Lafitte wrote:I visit this thread to see the contents of other people's weird headcanons, not this crap..

Hah, well, headcanons do depend at least a little on canons, so…

Rin's father is not her biological father. Rin's actual father was Sae's late husband, who had a brief fling with Rin's mother before he married Sae.

♪ DUN-DUN-DUNNNNNNN! ♫

Take it one step further: Sae and her late husband had a baby: Rin. They gave her up for adoption at birth, despairing of being able to deal with the disability. Years later, Sae doesn't make the connection… or does she?

brythain wrote:Yeah, people are entitled to their own headcanons.

Our argument is about the underlying canon, though, not headcanon.

Atario wrote:

brythain wrote:Yeah, people are entitled to their own headcanons.

Our argument is about the underlying canon, though, not headcanon.

I think it's about drawing psychological conclusions from behaviour expressed incompletely in canon. That debate is fine, but then perhaps it should be under the prolific Random KS Discussion thread or something, since it's not about headcanon anymore.

This, though, is a discussion about headcanon. I suppose that's what a metaphor is meta for.

I think of the school has having been built in, on and around the ruins of Aoba Castle, with a school gift shop and museum selling souvenirs.

The reason a school for the physically disabled is set here is that the warlord who built the castle, Masamune Date, was blind in one eye. In fact, his nickname was 'the One-Eyed Dragon' and his distinctive battle-helm is a national icon. He was also the first Japanese lord to send ships out on exploratory missions of the Pacific, and he welcomed emissaries from foreign cultures.

Atario wrote:Unless Hanako's just spontaneously turned nudist...

Now there's a fanfic idea...
On the topic of Hanako's route, I firmly believe that about two seconds after her Good End cut to the credits, Molly let out a squee that could be heard all over town.

emmjay wrote:

Atario wrote:Unless Hanako's just spontaneously turned nudist...

Now there's a fanfic idea...
On the topic of Hanako's route, I firmly believe that about two seconds after her Good End cut to the credits, Molly let out a squee that could be heard all over town.

If I ever go for a Hanako GE piece, I'll put that in and credit you for it. And maybe the nudist part from Atario too. Hmm.

Valjean Lafitte wrote:Why does it seem like every time this tangent is going to end on "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree", it morphs back into a debate? I visit this thread to see the contents of other people's weird headcanons, not this crap..

I keep trying to say that it is my own interpretation of the scene and dropping it, but he insists on going back to it to say I'm wrong when this is something you can't be wrong or right about.

At this point it's obvious to me that Atario is simply arguing for the sake of arguing and being purposely dense.

I gave my reasons for thinking the way I do. Some people agree with me, some people agree with him, and some people have different takes on the scene all together.

So in case the "let's agree to disagree" "this is simply the way I interpret it" isn't clear enough; we're simply going around in circles at this point, and I'm done discussing this further.

brythain wrote: The reason a school for the physically disabled is set here is that the warlord who built the castle, Masamune Date, was blind in one eye. In fact, his nickname was 'the One-Eyed Dragon' and his distinctive battle-helm is a national icon.

And Yamaku's sports mascot is a One Eyed Dragon
Cue the different sports clubs being torn between having it as a cute dragon or having it look badass

Munchenhausen wrote:

brythain wrote: The reason a school for the physically disabled is set here is that the warlord who built the castle, Masamune Date, was blind in one eye. In fact, his nickname was 'the One-Eyed Dragon' and his distinctive battle-helm is a national icon.

And Yamaku's sports mascot is a One Eyed Dragon
Cue the different sports clubs being torn between having it as a cute dragon or having it look badass

There we go...