Katawa Shoujo Forums

Mahorfeus wrote:...idea...

While a different story, it would be far more reasonable, and in character.

Thinking on it some more, I think it would be possible to do a cheating Hanako story and keep everyone basically in character. I would require three elements that Mendacium does not however. First, it would need to be set post-Yamaku, in order to allow enough time to Hanako to become a bit more outgoing. Second, it would require the introduction of a decent OC to serve as the "other man" (Mahorfeus's idea works well here). Third, it probably would need a liberal amount of Akria's Scottish Ruckus Juice. In other words, Hanako and Hisao make a mutual male friend in college. After a night of excessive drinking, Hanako sleeps with the wrong guy. Guilty feelings ensue.

EDIT: Point Taken, bhtooefr. And I could suppose you could even use one of their 3-3 classmates as the "other", if you wish, as opposed to a OC.

Oscar Wildecat wrote:

Mahorfeus wrote:...idea...

While a different story, it would be far more reasonable, and in character.

Thinking on it some more, I think it would be possible to do a cheating Hanako story and keep everyone basically in character. I would require three elements that Mendacium does not however. First, it would need to be set post-Yamaku, in order to allow enough time to Hanako to become a bit more outgoing. Second, it would require the introduction of a decent OC to serve as the "other man" (Mahorfeus's idea works well here). Third, it probably would need a liberal amount of Akria's Scottish Ruckus Juice. In other words, Hanako and Hisao make a mutual male friend in college. After a night of excessive drinking, Hanako sleeps with the wrong guy. Guilty feelings ensue.

Who says it has to be a guy (or an OC), especially when it's Akira's Scottish Ruckus Juice that's in play?

(The setup for something I tried to write had it actually be a (very) drunken Comfort Akira scenario, set between Hanako's good end, and summer break, as far as the timeline.)

bhtooefr wrote:

Oscar Wildecat wrote:

Mahorfeus wrote:...idea...

While a different story, it would be far more reasonable, and in character.

Thinking on it some more, I think it would be possible to do a cheating Hanako story and keep everyone basically in character. I would require three elements that Mendacium does not however. First, it would need to be set post-Yamaku, in order to allow enough time to Hanako to become a bit more outgoing. Second, it would require the introduction of a decent OC to serve as the "other man" (Mahorfeus's idea works well here). Third, it probably would need a liberal amount of Akria's Scottish Ruckus Juice. In other words, Hanako and Hisao make a mutual male friend in college. After a night of excessive drinking, Hanako sleeps with the wrong guy. Guilty feelings ensue.

Who says it has to be a guy (or an OC), especially when it's Akira's Scottish Ruckus Juice that's in play?

(The setup for something I tried to write had it actually be a (very) drunken Comfort Akira scenario, set between Hanako's good end, and summer break, as far as the timeline.)

Well, there you go, the perfect setup with no OCs or other guy: too much of Akira's 'Scottish Ruckus Juice', then too much of Akira's… well, I won't repeat myself. And in the morning, Hanako's slept with the wrong person.

I'm back! Probably for real this time. Anyway, Mendacium.

I know it's already been mentioned, but the idea that Hanako explicitly states "I wanted to be loved by someone normal", is just... wrong. Hanako understands better than literally the entire cast of KS how cruel that is. And, again, mentioned, but Hanako having one night stands with a bad boy is so out of character that it practically creates a new genre by accident. You're going to tell me that within months of finding someone who loves and accepts her despite her flaws, Hanako cheats on him. Because, and really, why mince words here? She loves sex enough to fuck a random guy she meets in a bar. It's like bizzaro Katawa Shoujo! Where Rin has no legs, and Emi has no arms, and Lilly is a delinquent!

But that's obvious. What pissed me off more subtly is how Hisao handles his interactions with Hanako with grim resignation bordering on resentment, even as he resolves to save their relationship. He wonders why he's crying when Hanako (apparently) committed suicide, listing reasons why he shouldn't care. Now, I'm not the most emotional guy, but I'm fairly certain that if your chronically depressed girlfriend commits suicide practically in front of you, partly because of you, having an emotional response shouldn't be surprising.

On a more nitpicky note, relying on shock and and grimdark does not good development make, no matter how flowery you make your prose.

Well, I was one of the people that said that the story was pretty good on the story's own thread, guess it shows you guys how bad my literary analytical skills are. I was one of the people that used to be on fanfic.net, liking pretty much any story that made me sad/feel. (Except ones with glued-on OCs)

I like all of your analysis, and I can see that Hanako was quite OOC to say the least. I have nothing useful to add, just that I realized that sad plots/themes of suicide and rape get to me.

ProfAllister wrote:There's an old saw that says that sacred cows make the best hamburgers. A more appropriate variation would be that sacred cows are the best materials for making hamburgers - it's still (very) possible to mess them up. The evidence indicates that Hanako is KS's sacred cow (even more so than the cow she regularly hangs out with). As a result, you are FAR more likely to cause controversy by disturbing the cow, or, more appropriately, peoples' perception of the cow. Under that interpretation, the real "crime" that has caused such consternation (and the common factor it shares with the two other major controversial works) is evident in the fact that the most common criticism (justified or not) can be phrased as "Hanako would never..."

This I actually found really interesting, because I'm certainly of the opinion that, well, Hanako would never. And I think I can expound on it a little. This is going to get reeeeaaaally meta, and largely based on wild ideas scribbled on napkins. But I'm going for it. You've been warned.

Hanako is (probably, possibly,) the most popular character, because her flaws are the most pronounced, and I think flaws are almost always the meat of any real character development. It's why we like Batman more than Superman. The more perfect your character, the less people find to empathize with, until you have a perfect and boring Mary Sue. (You can always make a character too flawed to be likable, because no one likes emo kids.) Hanako's actions are ruled by her insecurities in a way none of the other girls are. It's not easy to make an Out of Character Emi, for example, because Emi can be both outgoing and reclusive, cheerful and depressed. Depending on her mood, almost any activity becomes fairly reasonable with a little rationalization. Her flaws aren't very pronounced, and they don't really impact her decisions on the regular. Likewise, Lilly has some first world problems, perhaps literally. Rin is a mixed bag, because it can be hard to empathize with someone whose real disability is a lack of empathy. Whether Shizune even has a problem is up for debate. But we've all been Hanako, because she plays to the base of all of our insecurities. No one is 100% happy with their self image, and we're all scared of rejection. We want to see Hanako succeed, because she mirrors what we don't like about ourselves. I can summarize this definitively!

Hanako is the underdog of Katawa Shoujo. The fact that Hanako would never is her single and strongest trait, and violating that is as crazy as Rin becoming a therapist, Lilly swinging a nail bat, or Shizune missing a deadline.

Honestly, while some girls are more burdened by their conditions than others, the logic of 'I want to be loved by someone normal' would be hypocritical and out of character for ANY of the girls, not just Hanako.

I think we've beat this into the ground enough. When's the next story?

I'm pretty sure that whoever's in charge of that (Sea?) is MIA.

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

The random wheel of fandiction fell on this one:

Rooftops by Numb (completed, 908 words)
PoV: Hisao; Pairings: Hisao X Emi; Begins: after Emi good end
Remarks: character death

I remember adding this one on the early days of the library. good times.

The discussions can start now seeing as it is really short.

Yeah, okay. I didn't really like this one. It has the beginnings of a good idea, but it just didn't go far enough.

If you want to write a death fic (and at the end of the day, that's really all it is; a death fic), you have to deliver something more punchy than just Hisao wistfully reminiscing about events we've all already seen. My problem with the story is that at the end of the day all it boils down to is "Emi and Rin are both dead and Yamaku was demolished and now Hisao is sad and now he's having a heart attack." It's just a deus angst machina for the sake of itself. Though we don't really know how much time has passed since the VN, any single one of these things seems unlikely. All of them having happened is more than a little ridiculous.

Also, I'm not sure if Rin dying of a brain tumor is offensive, but it's certainly easy, if you know what I mean. It reminds me of how the writers of Mad Men needed to pull a reason out of their ass for Joan Harris (the embodiment of sexual politics on the show) to require medical attention,so, of all things, they gave her an ovarian cyst. Rin having a tumor feels the same way; like, she's not neurotypical, so she has to have a brain tumor? I don't like Rin as a character (unless Dewelar writes her) but having her die that way makes me feel like the author didn't even fully understand her.

Another problem I have with the fic is that it rehashes way, way too much about what we already know for how short it is, and Hisao's blatant expository musings about what has happened since then feel robotic, one-note, and unimaginative. "I turned to science after attending Yamaku, out of a love for the subject." No, you don't say. And Hisao having a heart attack is blatantly emotionally manipulative and I literally rolled my eyes after reading it.

If I were to write this sort of story, I'd try to make it more of a pastiche of Makoto Shinkai's work, making it more of a mono no aware story, if you know what I mean. Lots of poetic metaphor interwoven with brief, thoughtful flashbacks and a whole lot of talking around how Hisao feels and what really happened. Not Hisao just plopping his fat ass on a park bench and reading us back his favorite parts of Katawa Shoujo, but, like, Hisao as an adult, drinking silently among the raucous chatter of his co-workers and wondering what his place in life is, now that Emi and Rin are gone.

The death is just way too convenient, you know? It's like something I'd tell a four-year-old. Hisao was sad he missed Emi and Rin, so he died and met them in heaven and now they're happy again. It's way more powerful if he doesn't die. It's sadder if he cries out to the universe and nobody answers back. If he goes to the park and feels sad, knowing that he'll have to go back to work in the morning and test the new diabetes medication for the nine thousandth time.

I don't know; this story just makes me angry, because we know that Numb is capable of much better things than this and this story feels like a high school creative writing assignment. It just bums me out with how much it could be and how much it isn;t.

Yeah, this fic never did it for me, either. It's not often that a fic that that's both short and involves the deaths of multiple main characters leaves me bored, but this one did the trick. "Pedestrian" is the best word I can think of to describe it. Honestly, I almost didn't give Blossom a chance after having read this (and now I just wish Numb would finish one of these longer pieces sometime).

Leaty wrote:I don't like Rin as a character (unless Dewelar writes her)

Almost missed this in there...many thanks!

Emi dying of pneumonia, and Rin dying of a brain tumor?

Clearly someone read Mehkanik's Emilogue... and the thread even says that's what he did. At which point... what's the point of that story, exactly?

For reference... here's that Emilogue:

Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3.1:
Part 3.2:
Part 4:

What Leaty said. It reads like someone telling you the major plot points of a book they really liked, but one you haven't read; the major drama reduced to passing mentions. This story might actually function if it was about ten to twenty times longer. Also, the 'Hisao Lives an Empty Life' idea is interesting, but I don't think I could bring myself to read something that bleak without some kind of hope by story's end.

Anyway, I don't feel like this really adds anything to the characters. It's just there.

Frankly, I thought that Mehkanik's Emilogue was in itself all kinds of bad. I mention this only because the melodrama in that fic surrounding Emi and Rin was evidently a direct source of inspiration for this one. To be honest, what we have here barely qualifies as a story at all. We have Hisao not telling us a story, but nondescriptly rambling on about past events; it's more a summary than anything. Also, as opposed to A Future and heck, even Mehkanik's story, it approaches the issue of character death with all the grace of a drunk elephant.

"Sadly, she passed away last year. Brain cancer..."
"She is gone now… Pneumonia."

Two characters wiped off the slate, just like that. And then Hisao arbitrarily joins them at the end, because why not. So as I said back then:

Mahorfeus wrote:It seems needlessly sad and dramatic, so I can't really say that it's my thing.