Katawa Shoujo Forums

SpunkySix wrote:

Comrade wrote:You can only delete your messages if they're the last in the thread

Balls. Sorry guys, I have no idea how that was a thing even.

If i'm not mistaken it is a connection glitch that causes the messages post to be sent multiple time, but it should have given you a message someone posted while you were writing the post.

SpunkySix wrote:

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Think about it. Lilly, the one person Hanako has grown at all close to in ten years, is going to the other side of the planet. Hisao, whom she's gotten close to in the past month, is still there… or is he? Does he abandon her right when she needs him the most?

I can understand why that might be hard though, because, by the sound of it, she doesn't make it very clear how important it is to her. Which is understandable, but still somewhat confusing.

Yes well sometimes people don't make it clear how important something/you is to them. You've probably made a similar mistake in your own life. Have fun pondering that.

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Oh, certainly. I never said that wasn't the case.

The thing that I had a problem with was the choice afterwards, while Hisao was talking to Lilly on the phone. Specifically, after he decides not to go to the city with Hanako, and things get really bad, and he decides to get Lilly's input. And then he has the option of taking her advice... except he doesn't, no matter what you clicked on. If it changes absolutely nothing, why even have a choice at all?

Kyler Thatch wrote:

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Oh, certainly. I never said that wasn't the case.

The thing that I had a problem with was the choice afterwards, while Hisao was talking to Lilly on the phone. Specifically, after he decides not to go to the city with Hanako, and things get really bad, and he decides to get Lilly's input. And then he has the option of taking her advice... except he doesn't, no matter what you clicked on. If it changes absolutely nothing, why even have a choice at all?

Because the choice of taking her advice gives two endings for Hanako's route.
Choosing to call it a day automatically overrides both of those choices.

russianspy1234 wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Think about it. Lilly, the one person Hanako has grown at all close to in ten years, is going to the other side of the planet. Hisao, whom she's gotten close to in the past month, is still there… or is he? Does he abandon her right when she needs him the most?

I can understand why that might be hard though, because, by the sound of it, she doesn't make it very clear how important it is to her. Which is understandable, but still somewhat confusing.

Yes well sometimes people don't make it clear how important something/you is to them. You've probably made a similar mistake in your own life. Have fun pondering that.

Oh, definitely. I do it all the time. I wasn't criticizing it, and I don't blame Hanako at all, in fact I understand very well why she'd do that, I was just saying that for Hisao/the reader, I get why they might make that mistake. People do it for me plenty in real life.

Kyler Thatch wrote:

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Oh, certainly. I never said that wasn't the case.

The thing that I had a problem with was the choice afterwards, while Hisao was talking to Lilly on the phone. Specifically, after he decides not to go to the city with Hanako, and things get really bad, and he decides to get Lilly's input. And then he has the option of taking her advice... except he doesn't, no matter what you clicked on. If it changes absolutely nothing, why even have a choice at all?

Well actually, it does change a small bit of Hisao's dialogue. An important part IMHO. But also, it once again reinforces the point that Hisao is not the reader. Does the reader realize that listening to Lily is obviously the better choice? Yes. It's even obvious if you don't see the advice as better, because it's Hanako's best friend giving you the advice. But Hisao, who's known Hanako only a few months and barely spent any one on one time with her is arrogant enough to think he know better. You should also go back and read the text immediately after making the choice not to go to town. Then backtrack and go to town and see just how much you learn about Hanako and realize that unlike the player (who most likely went through that path before the bad one) Hisao doesn't have that information or that closeness.

someguy1294 wrote:

Xaredian wrote: Sounds like Hanako's route. Didn't go to the city with Hanako? Well, you're screwed, even if you listen to Lilly.

YES. I seriously want to punch Hisao in the face at that point.

And at the later point where he refused to leave Hanako's room until she explodes in his face.

I would never want that. Someone to get angry at me enough, that they'd explode in my face. Despite having Asperger's, is someone does that, I become either scared, or become very aggressive.

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision oflistening to Lilly or not.

Think about it. Lilly, the one person Hanako has grown at all close to in ten years, is going to the other side of the planet. Hisao, whom she's gotten close to in the past month, is still there… or is he? Does he abandon her right when she needs him the most?

When did any of us say it was a slip up?

SpecimenSix wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:

Comrade wrote:You can only delete your messages if they're the last in the thread

Balls. Sorry guys, I have no idea how that was a thing even.

Contrary to popular belief this forum isn't Nazi Germany. I doubt you've made that many enemies by posting the same thing a couple times by mistake.

Or are we? Kappa

russianspy1234 wrote:Well actually, it does change a small bit of Hisao's dialogue.

I tried checking, but I can't find the change you're referring to. What line is it that changes?

Kyler Thatch wrote:

russianspy1234 wrote:Well actually, it does change a small bit of Hisao's dialogue.

I tried checking, but I can't find the change you're referring to. What line is it that changes?

I haven't played in a long time, and don't have a save file on this computer so I don't remember exactly, but I could swear after you click "listen to Lily" Hisao says something like "no, she's wrong" and then goes.

russianspy1234 wrote:

Kyler Thatch wrote:

russianspy1234 wrote:Well actually, it does change a small bit of Hisao's dialogue.

I tried checking, but I can't find the change you're referring to. What line is it that changes?

I haven't played in a long time, and don't have a save file on this computer so I don't remember exactly, but I could swear after you click "listen to Lily" Hisao says something like "no, she's wrong" and then goes.

That's borderline meta.

Xaredian wrote:When did any of us say it was a slip up?

Here:

Kyler Thatch wrote:VN authors are usually better about logical narrative progression, but they're certainly not immune to slipups.

Guess that'll teach me not to quote! Anyway…

Kyler Thatch wrote:

russianspy1234 wrote:Well actually, it does change a small bit of Hisao's dialogue.

I tried checking, but I can't find the change you're referring to. What line is it that changes?

If you go to town with her, you get this upon disagreeing with Lilly:

Hisao, in his thoughts, wrote:I listen carefully to what Lilly has to say, but I can't bring myself to agree with her.
I want to be with Hanako more. I want to be a better friend to her, to support her when she needs support, and to be there when she most needs people. I think that now is one of those times.
The memory of the store owner we met in town together still puts me off. Anyone who takes even the slightest glance at Hanako ends up staring, and to fault them for it would be completely hypocritical, given my own reaction.
I don't like my own scarring either, but at least I can cover it up with something as simple as a shirt. I can't imagine a life where every day would be spent trying to hide myself as much as possible.
And on top of that, Hanako doesn't even have people around her that would support her no matter what she looks like. I live away from my parents, but I can still contact and visit them when I wish.
I mull over the best course of action in my head, and find myself trying to verbally agree with Lilly as softly and as ambivalently as I can.
We make some smalltalk afterwards, but the both of us don't really have much stomach for it in the light of recent events. We say our goodbyes before I hang up.

Whereas calling it a day (whether you disagreeing with her or not) gets you this:

Hisao, in his thoughts, wrote:I listen carefully to what Lilly has to say, but I can't bring myself to agree with her.
Hanako is a delicate person at the best of times, and after what happened when her birthday was brought up, I think this is the very last situation where we should be leaving her alone if she's deliberately secluding herself.
It feels like Lilly has a very definite image of how best to deal with Hanako in her mind, though. Not just now, but in all the time that I've known the two.
I mull over the best course of action in my head, and find myself trying to verbally agree with Lilly as softly and as ambivalently as I can.
We make some smalltalk afterwards, but neither of us really has much stomach for it in the light of recent events. We say our goodbyes before I hang up.

Hisao only actually accepts her advice if you both go to town and agree with her.

Kyler Thatch wrote:

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Oh, certainly. I never said that wasn't the case.

The thing that I had a problem with was the choice afterwards, while Hisao was talking to Lilly on the phone. Specifically, after he decides not to go to the city with Hanako, and things get really bad, and he decides to get Lilly's input. And then he has the option of taking her advice... except he doesn't, no matter what you clicked on. If it changes absolutely nothing, why even have a choice at all?

This right here.

The point of making choices in an visual novel is to make the protagonist do what YOU want them to do, yes? Or at the very least, preventing them from doing something ball-explodingly stupid?

There's a similar choice early in Act 1 when you first arrive at the cafeteria, where you can choose to ask about "Shizune's Deafeness" (or something along those lines) but if you choose that option, Hisao refuses to do it, says he doesn't know her well enough. Less of a big deal, since unlike the last choice in Hanko's route, this one doesn't friggin' destroy you.

someguy1294 wrote:Or at the very least, preventing them from doing something ball-explodingly stupid?

And yet, plenty of the choices lead directly to ball-exploding stupidity.

Potato wrote:

someguy1294 wrote:Or at the very least, preventing them from doing something ball-explodingly stupid?

And yet, plenty of the choices lead directly to ball-exploding stupidity.

"Hey, Hisao, sometimes you gotta learn about stuff indirectly, hint hint."

"'Kay!"

*Follows Emi to the bathroom to directly learn about her*

someguy1294 wrote:

Kyler Thatch wrote:

Atario wrote:It's not a slipup. The decision whether to go to town with her or "call it a day" is more important than the decision of listening to Lilly or not.

Oh, certainly. I never said that wasn't the case.

The thing that I had a problem with was the choice afterwards, while Hisao was talking to Lilly on the phone. Specifically, after he decides not to go to the city with Hanako, and things get really bad, and he decides to get Lilly's input. And then he has the option of taking her advice... except he doesn't, no matter what you clicked on. If it changes absolutely nothing, why even have a choice at all?

This right here.

The point of making choices in an visual novel is to make the protagonist do what YOU want them to do, yes? Or at the very least, preventing them from doing something ball-explodingly stupid?

There's a similar choice early in Act 1 when you first arrive at the cafeteria, where you can choose to ask about "Shizune's Deafeness" (or something along those lines) but if you choose that option, Hisao refuses to do it, says he doesn't know her well enough. Less of a big deal, since unlike the last choice in Hanko's route, this one doesn't friggin' destroy you.

I felt like a lot of the choices were kind of misleading in one way or another, like the (in)famous "comfort Misha" choice. I was among those that had no idea what that would entail.

Then there's also the first choice you're given in the game - whether or not to introduce yourself - which pretty much doesn't affect anything as far as I can tell.