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Hmm, but that's to Rin, not to Nomiya himself...

I'm guessing some of it is stylistic differences between the path writers? Given that I don't recall him referring to any teacher outside of Rin's route as anything other than their last name, and not just in monologues.

Also, IIRC, Lilly referred to Miyagi as just that, and she'd be the most likely to be formal to a teacher who isn't around (even though she hates being referred to as Satou herself because it's too formal).

Mirage_GSM wrote:

I look up, surprised at Mutou's indiscretion, and see him grimacing at the screen. "M-M-Mutou, wh-what's wrong?"

I've complained before about students adressing teachers solely by their last name... But for Hanako to do that as well is just... wrong.

but that didn't actually happen in Shizune's route (per the path to the bad ending)

It did happen on Shizune's route as well. That scene is in there by mistake. Somehow slipped by everyone during development and beta^^°

I interpreted it as Hanako wouldn't become that much better socially if you don't befriend her (in other words, if you don't go down Lilly's or Hanako's route), so Lilly stays in Japan because she feels she can't leave Hanako alone to be with her family.

That is a consideration, to be fair - that Hisao knocked her out of her comfort zone enough.

However, I think she could join the newspaper club and make friends without him actually going on her route. Overanalysis time, using points in a VN, when that's completely not how human relationships work, but hey.

Taking the following route (the ones that don't matter are Shizune points, and you're not going to go down Shizune's route, can't get enough points later on, because you take a Hanako/Lilly point):

Doesn't matter/Library/Doesn't matter/Apologize/She was cute

This gives the Hanako/Lilly route +3 at Lunch Evolution Theory. (+2 is what's needed to unlock one of the two +1s after Lunch Evolution Theory needed to get on their routes, but we're trying NOT to get on their routes here, but rather make Hanako believe in friends other than Lilly being a thing. To be honest, She was cute isn't strictly necessary (it's one that sets Hisao's mindset, not Hanako's, but I'll explain it away as Yamaku's gossip mill running overtime, and someone overhears him, and it gets back to Hanako. If that's the case, it's CRITICAL).)

Then, there's a few possible routes through that, that won't land you on Hanako or Lilly's route. The most likely two to result in a good outcome for Hanako:

Talk to Hanako/Yes/Did my part/Take it easy/Sorry, I'm in a bad shape/Interested in Arts
Talk to Hanako/Maybe/Did my part/Sorry, I'm in a bad shape/Interested in Arts

They're functionally the same path, of course, it's basically just a matter of whether you set the training flag. You need to not get on Emi's path.

The goal here is to get +1 on Hanako/Lilly's route, exactly. The three ways to do that are, at the relevant choice points:

Talk to Hanako/Did my part
Read my book/Give us a break
Wait for Misha and Shizune/Give us a break (available if you went for both Shizune +1 options before Lunch Evolution Theory)

Between Give us a break, and Talk to Hanako... because Hanako's Story isn't canon, I've gotta go with Talk to Hanako being the better of the two for Hanako. You end up pissing off Lilly, but that's why you follow Rin's path - you get to rebuild that bridge by taking Lilly shopping, if you head there. Yes, I know that Lilly doesn't like Rin.

Hell, even if you think of Hanako's Story as canon... Talk to Hanako results in Meet Cute and Sip (Part 1). That's where the friendship starts to solidify, without that, it can't happen, even if you go for Give us a break.

Proceed with off-screen friendship. However, it does mean that she wouldn't refer to him as Nakai...

bhtooefr wrote: This gives the Hanako/Lilly route +3 at Lunch Evolution Theory. (+2 is what's needed to unlock one of the two +1s after Lunch Evolution Theory needed to get on their routes, but we're trying NOT to get on their routes here, but rather make Hanako believe in friends other than Lilly being a thing. To be honest, She was cute isn't strictly necessary (it's one that sets Hisao's mindset, not Hanako's, but I'll explain it away as Yamaku's gossip mill running overtime, and someone overhears him, and it gets back to Hanako. If that's the case, it's CRITICAL).)

I remember reading a short fanfic where it's Hanako who overhears Hisao saying that she was cute.

Lianam wrote:

Mirage_GSM wrote:

I look up, surprised at Mutou's indiscretion, and see him grimacing at the screen. "M-M-Mutou, wh-what's wrong?"

I've complained before about students adressing teachers solely by their last name... But for Hanako to do that as well is just... wrong.

but that didn't actually happen in Shizune's route (per the path to the bad ending)

It did happen on Shizune's route as well. That scene is in there by mistake. Somehow slipped by everyone during development and beta^^°

I interpreted it as Hanako wouldn't become that much better socially if you don't befriend her (in other words, if you don't go down Lilly's or Hanako's route), so Lilly stays in Japan because she feels she can't leave Hanako alone to be with her family.

That wasn't my theory. It was outright stated by the devs.

Mirage_GSM wrote:

Lianam wrote: I interpreted it as Hanako wouldn't become that much better socially if you don't befriend her (in other words, if you don't go down Lilly's or Hanako's route), so Lilly stays in Japan because she feels she can't leave Hanako alone to be with her family.

That wasn't my theory. It was outright stated by the devs.

I like his theory more though, it would make alot more sense for Lily to stay behind in Japan if she felt like it would leave Hanako completely alone, that REALLY sounds like something she would do and doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I can see her leaving unhappily during her route(leaving Hisao/Hanako, but hoping they will have each other and be OK) and I can see her being almost happy to leave in Hanakos route(stays out of their way, Hanako has someone special that's there for her, etc) but if there's nobody there for Hanako, given how well Lily knows her, it would make perfect sense(and be perfectly canon-behaviour imo) if she stayed behind for Hanakos sake in the other routes.

Yeah, I saw the dev post saying they fucked up, but I like this theory more, it makes more sense and fits perfectly then again, I'm just an old goat who gets his head lost in the cloud sometimes, pay me no mind.

To be fair, there's also the "word of author is a lie" post that Delta made, that what happened in canon is absolute and anything the authors say outside of it isn't true.

(Which means that Jigoro took his wife's name, that's the only way the line about Mr. Satou being his biological brother works. I could actually see him hating his brother THAT much.)

The whole idea of whether Lilly being there toward the end of Shizune's route was a mistake or not, the fact is that she's there, and unless a new version of KS is released that fixes it, it's officially canon. The whole thing with Jigoro and Mr. Satou can be written off as a misunderstanding or mistranslation, but this can't.

As to why she's there, it's also possible that she left and came back at some later point, maybe even during summer break. Six weeks (or whatever Yamaku uses, since that's not mentioned) is a long time, especially when you consider that the entirety of Lilly's route only takes about nine weeks (including Act 1 but not the tag), and only Shizune's route itself is substantially longer (Rin's ends within a day or two of Lilly's, Emi's around the same time - I peg it at about a week before, give or take - and Hanako's is only about five weeks long). Shizune's route is on the order of several months (nine months in the good ending, somewhat shorter in the bad one), and Lilly appears only toward the end, so there's plenty of time to invent reasons for her to be there even if she did leave.

dewelar wrote:...Lilly's route only takes about nine weeks (including Act 1 but not the tag), and only Shizune's route itself is substantially longer (Rin's ends within a day or two of Lilly's, Emi's around the same time - I peg it at about a week before, give or take - and Hanako's is only about five weeks long). Shizune's route is on the order of several months...

How are you sure of this? There's no way to know when Rin's or Emi's route ends.

sanduba wrote:

dewelar wrote:...Lilly's route only takes about nine weeks (including Act 1 but not the tag), and only Shizune's route itself is substantially longer (Rin's ends within a day or two of Lilly's, Emi's around the same time - I peg it at about a week before, give or take - and Hanako's is only about five weeks long). Shizune's route is on the order of several months...

How are you sure of this? There's no way to know when Rin's or Emi's route ends.

Rin's (good ending, anyway) is fairly certain, since in "Without Breathing, Without a Sound" Hisao specifically says it's the first day of summer break, which we know from Shizune's route is the day Lilly and Akira are at the Hakamichi house.

Emi is a little less certain, but we know it's sometime between exams (and is at least a few days after the end of exams) and the beginning of summer break. Since they were in class throughout "Saving Throw", but apparently no class on the day of "Whispers of the Past", that chapter likely takes place on a Sunday. Since we also know the last day of classes is a half-day (i.e., a Saturday) from "Farewell" in Lilly's route, it's likely that "Whispers" takes place the previous Sunday. It's all assumption, of course, but it seems logical to me.

I think that just set the timeline for Bloighdich, if Lilly coming back to Yamaku is what's actually canon. (I think it was mentioned that she left, yeah. Or did she decide she was leaving, and Hanako pulled a Lilly good end?)

Note that I'm not saying that Lilly returning to Yamaku is the outcome of Bloighdich - rather, the catalyst of her thwarted suicide attempt in Bloighdich is the catalyst of her returning to Yamaku in Shizune's route, that of realizing that Akira was right about their parents.

bhtooefr wrote:I think that just set the timeline for Bloighdich, if Lilly coming back to Yamaku is what's actually canon.

Lilly being at Yamaku near the end of Shizune's route is canon. Lilly leaving Yamaku for Scotland during Shizune's route isn't canon, but is Word Of God, and doesn't clash with canon. That's as close to an answer as you're going to get .

Hmm... Given that Word of God isn't to be trusted, though, Hanako doing something to stop Lilly fits into the canon, too.

And, I might have to rely on conflicting with Word of God (and using that specific God's canon foreshadowing that goes against their own Word) to make one of the drabbles work. I'd like to avoid that, though.

Edit: Edited the one time where Hanako addresses Mutou as Mutou, changed it to Teacher. I think that'll do.

Mirage_GSM wrote:

Lianam wrote:I interpreted it as Hanako wouldn't become that much better socially if you don't befriend her (in other words, if you don't go down Lilly's or Hanako's route), so Lilly stays in Japan because she feels she can't leave Hanako alone to be with her family.

That wasn't my theory. It was outright stated by the devs.

...Ummm... Just because it resulted from a mistake doesn't mean my interpretation is disproven.
If Lilly's appearance was to be taken out, then as long as it's not stated that Lilly did leave, then I would still have that theory, and regardless of whether or not that scene was in the final release, then I can still back up my theory with what is stated in the canon.
Whether or not it's the case is up to the readers interpretation however- it arguably is or isn't cannon, but since it's not stated it can't, it can.

Overall, I like to think of it as Plot-hole-loop-hole (if that's not phrase, I unofficially coin it ).

Trigger warning: Character death

----------

Pharmaceuticals and Medical Devices Agency

For immediate release: May 6, 2029

Title: Recall of Hakamichi Industries hearing implants

A software defect in several models of Hakamichi Industries hearing implant has been found to lead to permanent brain damage. Several patients have suffered coma or death due to implants malfunctioning.

Patients are advised to contact their physician immediately for removal of the affected implants.

----------

Shizune Hakamichi lay in a hospital bed, motionless. The life support machines beep and whirr.

She had just wanted to fix herself. Be able to make friends again, after Yamaku.

A single tear falls.

The beeping stops.

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