Katawa Shoujo Forums

griffon8 wrote:On a long enough timeline, the odds of survival drop to zero. People are going to die eventually.

If it helps, ignore the epilogue. Pretend it ends with their wedding.

i wish i can but curiousity can't be helped then

So, having caught up on all the post on the fanfic forum, I went ahead and read your Emi epilogue on pastebin.

I guess I should have seen it coming, but I wouldn't have used a supernatural agency as a unifier. Given that you are planning an epilogue for each of the girls, it makes sense that there would be something to tie them to each other. But with a source that has no supernatural elements to it and an otherwise realistic continuation by you, I'd have skipped the role of the driver. Just having the people show up in whatever afterlife you have planned and leaving it at that would have worked. Using the driver makes it too much like 'It's A Wonderful Life' or the remake of 'Angels In The Outfield'. While those are entertaining, the supernatural guide will, IMO, become way too overused. I was sick of him by the end of Emi's story. He's too close to a Deus Ex Machina.

On the other hand, I'm glad there isn't much of your Emi epilogue that will be similar to mine. So, thanks for that.

griffon8 wrote:So, having caught up on all the post on the fanfic forum, I went ahead and read your Emi epilogue on pastebin.

I guess I should have seen it coming, but I wouldn't have used a supernatural agency as a unifier. Given that you are planning an epilogue for each of the girls, it makes sense that there would be something to tie them to each other. But with a source that has no supernatural elements to it and an otherwise realistic continuation by you, I'd have skipped the role of the driver. Just having the people show up in whatever afterlife you have planned and leaving it at that would have worked. Using the driver makes it too much like 'It's A Wonderful Life' or the remake of 'Angels In The Outfield'. While those are entertaining, the supernatural guide will, IMO, become way too overused. I was sick of him by the end of Emi's story. He's too close to a Deus Ex Machina.

On the other hand, I'm glad there isn't much of your Emi epilogue that will be similar to mine. So, thanks for that.

Time for a wall of spoiler, because we're talking plot.

In the limo guy extra, it's not a supernatural agency, it's a driving company. Before that extra, it's never implied anywhere that he's supernatural. He even goes so far as to decline those accusations himself during the Hanako finale. He drives limousines usually and preferably. Hence, limo guy. Limo guy extra. He refers to his 'company' as "Variance Limousines", etc.

He's not supernatural. You guys are assuming cliches, because I've left it vague enough to make typical conclusions (which makes it more interesting later when it goes in the total opposite direction). I could give it away what exactly he is, but it's boring to do that and would spoil the thought I put behind the character. You guys will understand later as I toss out more of the information.

Like I said before, what he is involves some of Carl Jung's psychological theory. If you google Carl Jung (and analytical psychology), do some creative interpretation, you could figure out the purpose behind the limo guy fairly easily. :V

As far as him being a Deus ex Machina: Firstly, how can you say that without seeing the full scope of things? I have one and three-fourths epilogues out of five done. Plus; dictionary definition of a Deux ex Machina: A plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

What unsolvable problem has the limo guy intervened in? Any time he appears, it's during an event that he's replaceable in or isn't 'unsolvable'. This is done on purpose, because I know what a Deus ex Machina is and he isn't intended to be one. If he wasn't there during any of those situations, things could ultimately happen the same way. Hanako would have a limo driver, Emi would have a ambulance driver and she'd probably have come to the same idea some other way about getting pregnant. The ideas/possibilities were all there before he furthered them along.

His existence isn't to make anything happen. He appears, as he admits before, because of a selfish pleasure he derives from it and knowing he at least played a small part in their happiness. His real purpose isn't to make anything happen by direct causation. Just to drive the stories along.

These epilogues are chapters to a whole story that I've been bouncing around in my head. He'd be a true Deus ex Machina would be if he only appeared once, solved some kind of impossible problem and then never again after Hanako's series. And if I never planned to explain anything about him. But I do, and he isn't going to solve any problems. Just drive people to their happy endings, either figuratively, or literally.

Now, that being said that these epilogues are chapters to a whole story, I'll let you in on a secret: the limo guy is important. And why he's ultimately important lies in how these epilogues are related to one another as singular parts to an entire story. If you read the Limo Guy Extra on the pastebin that I have, the ending will let you in on a small part of how he and these epilogues are all related to one another.

The fun part is because of how non-crucial he generally is, his appearances can be ignored fairly easily as just some random stranger. Well, aside from in Hanako's epilogue finale. I did that one noticeable part because I had to make him noticeable so that I could continue making him subtle. Now people can look for him, if they're interested in seeing him. He's relatively uninvolved on the surface.

And no need to thank me for our writing being different, that's only natural. I don't really see the need to thank me one way or the other, it's not like I intentionally looked for yours and avoided similarities. I just write what comes to mind.

I haven't read Emi's story yet, and I have no complaints about limo guy, but everyone who can deliver letters from the afterlife is definitely supernatural in my book.

He's definitely Morgan Freeman

Mirage_GSM wrote:I haven't read Emi's story yet, and I have no complaints about limo guy, but everyone who can deliver letters from the afterlife is definitely supernatural in my book.

The fact that you guys keep using the word afterlife means that I'm doing this right. :3c

I just didn't display how he was able to 'deliver' that letter. Purposely so.

The "after being dead" just sounds a bit clumsy...

Mirage_GSM wrote:The "after being dead" just sounds a bit clumsy...

The way you used it alluded more to the fact that it was a place than a state, and that he came from it.

Which is fine, because like I said, I'm doing this on purpose. I left it so that the readers fall into making a typical conclusion, despite leaving hints in the writing, or never using the word 'afterlife' once during it. Where Hanako went is somewhere that existed before death and during life. The driver didn't take her there, he met her there.

I'll just keep having fun until I fully explain it~

Unrelated, I won't be releasing an edit of the first Emilogue today, because I have a lot of other things tying my hands up.

that guy wrote:Time for a wall of spoiler, because we're talking plot.

In the limo guy extra, it's not a supernatural agency, it's a driving company. Before that extra, it's never implied anywhere that he's supernatural. He even goes so far as to decline those accusations himself during the Hanako finale. He drives limousines usually and preferably. Hence, limo guy. Limo guy extra. He refers to his 'company' as "Variance Limousines", etc.

He's not supernatural. You guys are assuming cliches, because I've left it vague enough to make typical conclusions (which makes it more interesting later when it goes in the total opposite direction). I could give it away what exactly he is, but it's boring to do that and would spoil the thought I put behind the character. You guys will understand later as I toss out more of the information.

Supernatural: of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal. Limo guy fits this definition. It may not be from a god or God, but he is absolutely supernatural. Even if you use the theory that it's a different guy every time limo guy is met, he gives off an air of knowing way more than he should.

that guy wrote:As far as him being a Deus ex Machina: Firstly, how can you say that without seeing the full scope of things? I have one and three-fourths epilogues out of five done. Plus; dictionary definition of a Deux ex Machina: A plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

I said he's too much like a Deus Ex Machina. He's like the third definition from the TVTropes page that I won't link to here because it shows through spoiler tags.

that guy wrote:What unsolvable problem has the limo guy intervened in? Any time he appears, it's during an event that he's replaceable in or isn't 'unsolvable'. This is done on purpose, because I know what a Deus ex Machina is and he isn't intended to be one. If he wasn't there during any of those situations, things could ultimately happen the same way. Hanako would have a limo driver, Emi would have a ambulance driver and she'd probably have come to the same idea some other way about getting pregnant. The ideas/possibilities were all there before he furthered them along.

Yes, but you did use him there. I'm saying that, as far as I can tell given what you've written, the story would have been improved if you didn't use him.

that guy wrote:His existence isn't to make anything happen. He appears, as he admits before, because of a selfish pleasure he derives from it and knowing he at least played a small part in their happiness. His real purpose isn't to make anything happen by direct causation. Just to drive the stories along.

And he's completely unnecessary for it. That's my point.

that guy wrote:These epilogues are chapters to a whole story that I've been bouncing around in my head. He'd be a true Deus ex Machina would be if he only appeared once, solved some kind of impossible problem and then never again after Hanako's series. And if I never planned to explain anything about him. But I do, and he isn't going to solve any problems. Just drive people to their happy endings, either figuratively, or literally.

Now, that being said that these epilogues are chapters to a whole story, I'll let you in on a secret: the limo guy is important. And why he's ultimately important lies in how these epilogues are related to one another as singular parts to an entire story. If you read the Limo Guy Extra on the pastebin that I have, the ending will let you in on a small part of how he and these epilogues are all related to one another.

The fun part is because of how non-crucial he generally is, his appearances can be ignored fairly easily as just some random stranger. Well, aside from in Hanako's epilogue finale. I did that one noticeable part because I had to make him noticeable so that I could continue making him subtle. Now people can look for him, if they're interested in seeing him. He's relatively uninvolved on the surface.

I absolutely look forward to your explanation. I did read the extra. I can totally accept that it may all be justified when you're done. We shall see, and I will enjoy the ride anyway based on what you've done so far.

that guy wrote:And no need to thank me for our writing being different, that's only natural. I don't really see the need to thank me one way or the other, it's not like I intentionally looked for yours and avoided similarities. I just write what comes to mind.

Ha! You may have misread my comment. I was referring to a story I have yet to finish writing. I haven't even put any chapters up yet.

Anyway, I'm enjoying your stories, even if I object to something that is, for the most part, a very minor item.


TL;DR: I still object to the literary device, but I will enjoy your story.

Supernatural: of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal. Limo guy fits this definition. It may not be from a god or God, but he is absolutely supernatural. Even if you use the theory that it's a different guy every time limo guy is met, he gives off an air of knowing way more than he should.

His existence and role is metaphysical (involving some of the philosophy of Being mixed in with Carl Jung theories), which is vastly different from supernatural.

He seems unexplainable and abnormal because you don't know the full story to him, what he is or why he is. Which, like I said, is normal and what I intended, due to the fact that I'm not going to tell the whole story right off the bat. Until I explain things fully you're going to keep registering it as 'supernatural' until you find something else to pull at that you can agree to. Or until I finally explain it all, later on.

I said he's too much like a Deus Ex Machina. He's like the third definition from the TVTropes page that I won't link to here because it shows through spoiler tags.

Even if you find them to be like, similar != being one. Kind of makes the whole use of the term moot.

Also, are you actually going to use a sardonic website as a legitimate reference? Either way, said 'definition' doesn't seem applicable. With or without him, the results would largely be the same. Best part is, this is your reasoning for him not being needed, but it'd change the total meaning to the 'story' that I'm trying to emphasize. See my last passage for why it seems this way; can't see the whole story because we're only at the surface. I'm only about 2/5ths done at best.

Yes, but you did use him there. I'm saying that, as far as I can tell given what you've written, the story would have been improved if you didn't use him.

The key words to this and why I'm playing devil's advocate: As far as you can tell

There's a lot left! And plenty already to allude to non-basic conclusions as opposed to the ones people are settling for; like afterlives, supernatural entities, ghosts, spirits and skeletons popping out.

I'm just trying to encourage thoughts in different directions by pointing out as many different possibilities as possible. Even if someone managed to correctly figure out what the Limo Guy's point was, I'd probably try to say otherwise, just to keep thoughts bouncing around.

Thought can be very powerful.

And he's completely unnecessary for it. That's my point.

So you think~

Read all the previous spoiler responses. He's the common point, the meaning and the means. There wouldn't be a greater story or a meaning to tell at the end of all this if it weren't for the limo guy.

I absolutely look forward to your explanation. I did read the extra. I can totally accept that it may all be justified when you're done. We shall see, and I will enjoy the ride anyway based on what you've done so far.

Good, I'm glad! I'm also happy the limo guy as a character and means isn't detracting completely from the writing. That's a major intent of mine, to just make him a character who's there at times to give those who want more of him the chance, but not overwhelm the actual epilogues with him.

I'm looking forward to explaining it later on. Being a psych student and a lover of thought and the meaning involving both, I'm going to have fun with it. Hopefully everyone else enjoys it like I have, developing it. Also, I hope you liked his extra. I had a ton of fun writing it. I enjoyed the beginning, where I basically described his office as something I've always imagined from a dimly lit film-noir.

Added, I probably did misunderstand you, heh. Send me a message when it's up and going, I'll definitely give it a read when possible.

that guy wrote:

Mirage_GSM wrote:The "after being dead" just sounds a bit clumsy...

The way you used it alluded more to the fact that it was a place than a state, and that he came from it.

Which is fine, because like I said, I'm doing this on purpose. I left it so that the readers fall into making a typical conclusion, despite leaving hints in the writing, or never using the word 'afterlife' once during it. Where Hanako went is somewhere that existed before death and during life. The driver didn't take her there, he met her there.

The afterlife can refer to either a place or a state of being, depending on whom you ask - personally I do not believe in either, so I rarely see the need to specify one or the other.
It doesn't really matter in this case. Whatever Hanako's location or state of being at the time she wrote the letter, there would have been no non-supernatural way to get it to her grandchildren.
Again: I don't have any problems with supernatural elements in fanfictions - you know that if you read the stories I posted here myself

"Akira laughed halfheartedly and I slapped him playfully on the arm. "Don't be a jerk." Tomo seemed to raise his eyebrows at this statement, halfway worriedly."

akira is a girl

This brought tears to my eyes...

Thank you for the wonderful story

Ah god, all the emotions.
I haven't cried in a while, thank you so much, this is . . . I don't even know, it's beautiful.
This is going after sisterhood in my headcanon, screw no parallels.
And since necroing old fics is my thing now, READ THIS. You won't regret it.

God Dammit. I thought I was done with these emotions! But a fantastic fan fic. Loved it. I'll be going through your other works now XD.

Sea wrote:Ah god, all the emotions.
I haven't cried in a while, thank you so much, this is . . . I don't even know, it's beautiful.
This is going after sisterhood in my headcanon, screw no parallels.
And since necroing old fics is my thing now, READ THIS. You won't regret it.

DAMMIT SEA STOP NECROING THESE SAPPY FICS. I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN I READ THEM! But thank you. =P