Katawa Shoujo Forums

@Nameless
Some of those songs you've mentioned are set to appear in part 4, and while you seem to have some really good advice, I'm kind of in a funk right now for some reason, so I'll probably hold off on making any immediate edits to any of the songs for a while
@Bagheera
As much as I'd like to discuss the finer points of the story, it's not all up online yet. I appreciate the wall of text about stuff though; it's making me do quite a bit of thinking. Others have expressed similar sentiments, but those were all on /vg/ or Crispybooks, and have been pruned long ago

Honestly, the guys who say that Hisao should just completely abandon Hanako kind of piss me off. To be fair, she's obviously highly remorseful. She was prepared to kill herself if it came to pass that Hisao could no longer bear to look at her. Did she fundamentally disrespect him in a rather ironic (and hypocritical) way? OF COURSE. But seriously, I think the best option here is to at least attempt support.

Flesh-Puppet wrote:I think the best option here is to at least attempt support.

As does Hisao. But if I make him so that he's like I'LL STILL LUV U 4EVER NO MATTER WHAT then I'll alienate a shitton of people who will no longer be able to understand what he is and will be feeling.

Flesh-Puppet wrote:Honestly, the guys who say that Hisao should just completely abandon Hanako kind of piss me off. To be fair, she's obviously highly remorseful. She was prepared to kill herself if it came to pass that Hisao could no longer bear to look at her. Did she fundamentally disrespect him in a rather ironic (and hypocritical) way? OF COURSE. But seriously, I think the best option here is to at least attempt support.

Well, we can't all be the epitome of patience like the Hisao in this fic is. The reasons for Hanako cheating on Hisao were so selfish, that it'd be hard NOT to side with Hisao if he did decide to think "Screw this, I spent a considerable amount of my time and energy going after you, and you throw it all away. I'm out." But obviously, that would leave Brogurt with much less to write. Just because she's remorseful doesn't change the fact that she cheated on him. And had Hisao met Hanako in a less dangerous place, I would bet that he'd storm off from her and wash his hands of the whole situation. It was only due to his realization that Hanako was on the fence that stayed his hand on the roof.

Well, I contend that if two people consent to do something together, then they're both 50% responsible. So in such a situation I'd blame Tenshin equally, if not a bit moresince he's the experienced partner. And maybe I'm just too forgiving myself.

And if Hanako is the girl who just can't control her own libido, then she would be most likely willing to accept an open relationship. If Hisao plays it smartly, he's in for a life full of orgies and wife swapping.

Brogurt wrote:

Flesh-Puppet wrote:I think the best option here is to at least attempt support.

As does Hisao. But if I make him so that he's like I'LL STILL LUV U 4EVER NO MATTER WHAT then I'll alienate a shitton of people who will no longer be able to understand what he is and will be feeling.

No, you're absolutely right, that would be the worst possible course of action aside from killing her yourself. Sorry if anything else I said made it sound as if I think differently.

BobBobberson wrote:

Flesh-Puppet wrote:Honestly, the guys who say that Hisao should just completely abandon Hanako kind of piss me off. To be fair, she's obviously highly remorseful. She was prepared to kill herself if it came to pass that Hisao could no longer bear to look at her. Did she fundamentally disrespect him in a rather ironic (and hypocritical) way? OF COURSE. But seriously, I think the best option here is to at least attempt support.

Well, we can't all be the epitome of patience like the Hisao in this fic is. The reasons for Hanako cheating on Hisao were so selfish, that it'd be hard NOT to side with Hisao if he did decide to think "Screw this, I spent a considerable amount of my time and energy going after you, and you throw it all away. I'm out." But obviously, that would leave Brogurt with much less to write. Just because she's remorseful doesn't change the fact that she cheated on him. And had Hisao met Hanako in a less dangerous place, I would bet that he'd storm off with her and wash his hands of the whole situation. It was only due to his realization that Hanako was on the fence that stayed his hand on the roof.

I was never denying the fact that it was an outright betrayal on her part, I said as much myself. Perhaps simply saying "fuck you" IS the best option, but not when she's THAT close to offing herself over it, at least in my opinion. Keep in mind she was perpetrating all of this around the same time that Hisao was coddling her in canon. Not that it makes her any more sympathetic to point that out, but it may well be a factor.

Bagheera wrote:A breach of trust on that scale simply cannot be repaired, particularly when it's coupled with the degree of self-importance and general contempt she displays when explaining it to him

THIS. It's beyond obvious she still has no respect for him and is just using him for pity points to cheer herself up now that her preferred lover isn't available. Hell, if he'd have date raped her but stayed in town she probably still wouldn't have told Hisao and would be instead trying to work it out with McWonderDick.

flesh-Puppet wrote:Honestly, the guys who say that Hisao should just completely abandon Hanako kind of piss me off. To be fair, she's obviously highly remorseful. She was prepared to kill herself if it came to pass that Hisao could no longer bear to look at her. Did she fundamentally disrespect him in a rather ironic (and hypocritical) way? OF COURSE. But seriously, I think the best option here is to at least attempt support.

Gee, whatever happened to her wanting to be treated like an equal? You're buying into the pity card again and giving her a pass she doesn't deserve. Being remorseful doesn't mean she has any more respect for him then she did when she ditched him specifically because of his disability, nor does it mean she won't run off with countless other guys as opportunities present themselves.

Keep in mind she was perpetrating all of this around the same time that Hisao was coddling her in canon. Not that it makes her any more sympathetic to point that out, but it may well be a factor.

No. This affair started AFTER the good end and has been going on 2-3 times a week for the past few months. Putting that with Hisao's comments at the beginning of chap 1 indicates they've been officially together for about 5 months or so. "Joined the newspaper club" indeed... Don't let yourself think for a second that she was somehow tricked into this either. She tries to blame it on alcohol but she also lets slip that she just wasn't satisfied, so it's really a case of her intentionally going out on the town for a bit of strange and finding a second relationship instead.

Beoran wrote: And if Hanako is the girl who just can't control her own libido, then she would be most likely willing to accept an open relationship. If Hisao plays it smartly, he's in for a life full of orgies and wife swapping.

Believe it or not, but some people just aren`t interested in stuff like that - even males.

nemz wrote:
Gee, whatever happened to her wanting to be treated like an equal? You're buying into the pity card again and giving her a pass she doesn't deserve. Being remorseful doesn't mean she has any more respect for him then she did when she ditched him specifically because of his disability, nor does it mean she won't run off with countless other guys as opportunities present themselves.

No. This affair started AFTER the good end and has been going on 2-3 times a week for the past few months. Putting that with Hisao's comments at the beginning of chap 1 indicates they've been officially together for about 5 months or so. "Joined the newspaper club" indeed... Don't let yourself think for a second that she was somehow tricked into this either. She tries to blame it on alcohol but she also lets slip that she just wasn't satisfied, so it's really a case of her intentionally going out on the town for a bit of strange and finding a second relationship instead.

Yes, yes! Let the hate flow through you! Show no mercy! Do not hesitate! And your transformation to the dark side will be complete!

Ok but seriously, way to make the points I was to lazy to make. There's a limit on how far pity can get Hanako. I was gonna say the whole if a girl/guy cheats once, they'll do it again rule. But there's just so much damning evidence against Hanako (Like the reason for cheating on Hisao to begin with: Moar, longer sex) that there's no way to portray her as the 'victim', except for the rape bit. That could be considered a kind of fucked up karma retribution or something. I really can't see this story ending on a happy tone at all.

BobBobberson wrote:Like the reason for cheating on Hisao to begin with: Moar, longer sex

That's a reason, yes, but I tried to make it clear in the first chapter that she also wanted to feel like she wasn't subhuman, and that she wasn't restricted to relationships with other subhumans (in this case, someone with a fucked up heart). After all, I'm certain it's no longer news to anybody that her disability wasn't her scars, but rather her psychological issues.

BobBobberson wrote:Yes, yes! Let the hate flow through you! Show no mercy! Do not hesitate! And your transformation to the dark side will be complete!

Nah... not hate, just righteous fury. If it was full-blown hate I'd be suggesting he should have finished the roof conversation by telling her to jump and/or spreading the truth of her affair school wide. I'm not advocating any manner of adding to her damage, but there's no way in hell Hisao should be playing the crying shoulder either other than him being so beta we probably need to shift him down to gamma and demand he turn in his bro card.

Brogurt wrote:she also wanted to feel like she wasn't subhuman, and that she wasn't restricted to relationships with other subhumans

Sure, I get that, but the very fact that she's thinking this way shows her to be an unmitigated bigot, a hypocrite of the first rank and generally just a terrible person. She's become the sort of person that it's appropriate to suggest should die in a fire.

If this ends with anything other than Hisao expressing that she can burn in hell for all he cares, I am going to be deeply disappointed. Maybe if he's feeling particularly vindictive, he can relate a wish for the fire to char the other half of her too, and finish what it started. This is a classic irreparable situation, the only chance for redemption lies in turning your back on the whole confused mess.

nemz wrote:Sure, I get that, but the very fact that she's thinking this way shows her to be an unmitigated bigot, a hypocrite of the first rank and generally just a terrible person. She's become the sort of person that it's appropriate to suggest should die in a fire.

Yup. Remember, folks, this wasn't just a lapse in judgement on her part -- she actively deceived Hisao for months, and did it explicitly because her new boyfriend was better in the sack. I get that she's unstable on account of her rape, I really do. But the compassionate and sane thing to do here is to make sure someone's looking after her (nurse, Lilly, other girls in the newspaper club, whomever) and then get the hell out of Dodge. She's made it abundantly clear that he can't meet her needs and that means this can't help but end in tears for him (and her, actually; if he can't satisfy her she shouldn't be with him, full stop. She should be with someone who makes her happy, and she should let him go so she can find said person).

It's very sad that she was raped, but that is not his problem. He needs to focus on taking care of himself at this point and let her deal with the consequences of her actions on her own.

(though of course, as I said previously this is horrendously out of character for her. Hisao already gave her what she said she wanted in the game -- why she'd go off with someone else purely for physical thrills is beyond me. That just isn't who Hanako is.)

At first I wanted to slap hanako the cheating shore

Now I want to punch Hisao

Seriously she did not accidentally have a lapse in judgement to slept with someone else. She consciously went out and fucked another guy while lying to his face for months. Yes she was raped and possibly suicidal but man the fuck up. There's a reason why he called the other guy an alpha male because he knows he's beta as fuck. Tell her she shouldn't kill herself but seriously the relationship and friendship is irreconcilable at this point.

But Hisao is now in white knight mode again. Giving and tu
rning in her homework, like an errand boy, play chess with her, kiss her on the forehead like a during mother. Hmm good job Hisao, youre trying to regress her back into her shell.

Certainly, an option is to just turn his back on the situation. He's been deeply hurt and betrayed and is well within his rights to just leave her. But is that really the right thing to do? Hanako is very clearly not well. It's unlikely they can patch up their relationship from this, but that doesn't mean he can't help her through this! And it's not like he's being all white knighty again, it really isn't. This is just a big clusterfuck of problems, but Hisao is trying, dammit. Lilly's gone to Scotland, and I'm unsure if Hanako is actually IN the newspaper club. For all we know that could just have been her excuse to go behind his back and screw another guy. She didn't want him to MEET any of the people in the club, after all.