Katawa Shoujo Forums

Daitengu wrote:

axlryder wrote:The problem with your argument is that you're implying the seemingly inherent subjectivity of the threshold of what one might deem excessive based on this situation is somehow limiting an objective conclusion from being drawn about whether or not the actions she took were excessive. That's false, as we can clearly see that her actions were dangerous for someone in Hisao's condition and Hisao himself was posing no real physical danger to Hanako (nor would such an extreme reaction likely have been necessary to remove his presence). One doesn't need units of measure to objectively say "yeah, you clearly used too much flour" if they're even vaguely familiar with the recipe.

You are correct to imply that I can not, objectively, say exactly how overboard Hanako went, but thankfully my ability to impartially say "her actions went overboard" is not contingent on that.

It's reasonable to expect the actions she took though, as she was basically acting in fight or flight mode. Cornered in her sanctuary by Hiao, she couldn't run, so she got hostile.

Guest Poster wrote:I really don't think it's necessary to treat Hisao with kiddie gloves here. The guy wouldn't appreciate you for that. He has been on medication for some time, so he doesn't get heart attacks merely from emotional stress. He's portrayed as being able to deal with the various emotional bumpy rides in other routes and can even consistently have sex without too much risk. The only times he consistently gets worse is when he gets lax with his medication. I think he can handle five lines of harsh venting just fine. Now if Hanako had physically attacked Hisao, THAT would have put him at a genuine risk, since he still deals badly with blows to the chest even from someone who's not particularly atlethic. But Hanako didn't attack him, nor did she threaten to and her outburst ended the moment Hisao left the room. The worst he had to deal with was a hysterical "I hate you". That having to feel like shit afterwards.

I also agree with Daitengu. Flight or fight, and she wouldn't have fled from her own room in her nightgown and in the emotional state she was in. Hisao's interaction with Hanako in that scene being calm and consoling wasn't much of a consolation when every word made Hanako feel worse and worse. Hanako's attempts to make Hisao leave her alone may been feeble, but anyone knowing her would realize that even those kinds of reactions take effort from her and SHOULD be taken seriously and anyone expecting her to suddenly develop an assertiveness she doesn't even possess on her best days has very unrealistic expectations. Taking Hisao's insistence to protect her from herself against her own wishes in mind and Hanako's turmoiled emotional state, what happened in Misstep was pretty much the most realistic outcome we could expect. You could argue the characters shouldn't be the way they are, but that's just getting into opinions.

Oh, and Hisao usually IS pretty perceptive, but he does admit near the end of the good end most things he assumed about Hanako were wrong and he wasn't the only one. Lilly, who's also fairly perceptive, was also wrong about several things. Hanako's so closed-off she's not easy to figure out.

Tilting Clock wrote:You have constructed a mighty fine straw argument there, sir. I shall turn my attentions elsewhere and advise others to do the same.

Guest Poster wrote:The notion of her outburst putting Hisao in danger doesn't really fit in well with how his heart behaves in the rest of the game. The only time his heart acted up due to mere emotion (rather than messing up his medication, a blow to the chest or physically overexterting himself) was at the very beginning before he got his surgery and started taking his meds. Anxiety never triggered it anywhere else.

Nekken wrote:Come to think of it, does Hanako ever actually see Hisao's heart condition act up during her path? Certainly she knows about his condition, but does she have any reason to think that blowing up at him might cause problems? Do we as the players, even? No one at Yamaku, including Hisao, likes to be treated like a porcelain doll without good reason, nor for it to be assumed that they need such treatment, and Hanako knows this from her own experience.

Nekken wrote:Come to think of it, does Hanako ever actually see Hisao's heart condition act up during her path? Certainly she knows about his condition, but does she have any reason to think that blowing up at him might cause problems? Do we as the players, even? No one at Yamaku, including Hisao, likes to be treated like a porcelain doll without good reason, nor for it to be assumed that they need such treatment, and Hanako knows this from her own experience.