Katawa Shoujo Forums

brzęczyszczykiewicz wrote:Please stop doing that, it's absolutely obnoxious and makes you look like an idiot.

Ah, my apologies. I usually tend to keep that sort of thing to an absolute minimum, but it seems I fucked up and lost track. Thanks for calling me out on it.

Synthus wrote:

Mysterious Stranger wrote: I can't agree with that at all. Do you really believe that provoking Shizune would be in line with Lilly's character in any way?

Notice how freaking passive-aggressive she can be? No, of course you didn't, because Lilly is absolutely perfect, shit rainbows and pisses double cream.

Seriously though, both of them are bitchy as hell to each other. Shizune just has a much poorer PR department.

None of the girls are perfect, obviously. And of course Lilly can be and is just as aggressive (in her own way) as Shizune, but only when she's provoked by her. As you pointed out, though, the main reason would for that would be that she can (usually) never be sure Shizune is actually present. But I just can't see Lilly being an instigator the way Shizune is.

Synthus wrote:KSTO?

Yeah. You know, Katawa Shoujo Treaty Organization. Kind of like opposing Shizune Taleban.




Y'know?







Get it?

We'll have to disagree on that. SWORD CANES AT DAWN!

I'd cite the outdoor meal scene in Shizune's path as an example of Lilly picking a fight with Shizune, but that could easily be interpreted either way.

Palas wrote: Get it?

Now I do. The trouble was that 'No Action, Talk Only' didn't translate quite as well to the KS version.

I tend to think of Shizune as the "Unstoppable Force" and Lily as the "Immovable Object". The fit becomes even more hilarious when in reference to Warcraft. Since The unstoppable force is a giant hammer, and the immovable force is a shield.

For that matter to me Lily and Shizune both didn't change at all through the stories, while Hisao changed the most in those stories. Lily was always matronly and supportive, which never changed. Though The perspective of Lily changes as the player finds out more about Lily, and the relationship changed. Shizune didn't change much at all either. As has been said she likes to challenge and to tease Hisao. Which makes me wonder about just how much of Shizune's silence at the end was teasing.

I can see where the dislike for Shizune comes from. If most people harmonize with Hanako(be it less fear of her, empathy, white knight, etc) Shizune would be the opposite for those players and be seen as, annoying, over bearing, nerve wracking, insensitive. This also kind of leads me back to Lily vs Shizune. Lily can easily express her feelings, while Shizune can't. So I think players that can't get the subtle stuff tend to gloss over Shizune as a tyrant.

Hey, I get the feeling that a lot of people here are misinterpreting something about Shizune and Lilly's fighting and are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's nothing but a childish spat. Sure they seem to hate each other's guts, but it's really just a childish spat. I fight like that with my cousins frequently (complete with lightning storms in the background, of course) but in the end, we get along. I mean if Shizune and Lilly really hated each other so much, they wouldn't have had fun on that fishing trip, would they? Under all the bitching at each other, they have a deep familiar bond as implied in both Shizune's and Lilly's routes.

Daitengu wrote:I tend to think of Shizune as the "Unstoppable Force" and Lily as the "Immovable Object". The fit becomes even more hilarious when in reference to Warcraft. Since The unstoppable force is a giant hammer, and the immovable force is a shield.

I don't know what to hate more: you for making the reference to vanilla WoW PVP rewards, or myself for immediately understanding what you were talking about.

I think it's not that people hate Shizune. Shizune's not so evil as to be hated, but more of the fact that people don't like her that much. It's more of a neutral feeling towards her rather than negative. The reason might be because most girls nowadays act like they're the queen all the time, so it's more or less a common sight to see a megalomaniac girl hanging around pretty much everywhere.

encrypted12345 wrote:Hey, I get the feeling that a lot of people here are misinterpreting something about Shizune and Lilly's fighting and are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's nothing but a childish spat. Sure they seem to hate each other's guts, but it's really just a childish spat. I fight like that with my cousins frequently (complete with lightning storms in the background, of course) but in the end, we get along. I mean if Shizune and Lilly really hated each other so much, they wouldn't have had fun on that fishing trip, would they? Under all the bitching at each other, they have a deep familiar bond as implied in both Shizune's and Lilly's routes.

Well, it's definitely true that they're holding a grudge for the sake of holding the grudge - they do care about each other, as much as they don't want to show it out of pride (as well as the fear of being rejected by the other). However, the fishing trip only hints that they care about each other. Lilly's is the only route where we can see through it all; Lilly is afraid to try before she leaves for good, fearing that Shizune might reject her, while Shizune has to muster up the courage to go through with it, since it's her last chance to.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Daitengu wrote:I tend to think of Shizune as the "Unstoppable Force" and Lily as the "Immovable Object". The fit becomes even more hilarious when in reference to Warcraft. Since The unstoppable force is a giant hammer, and the immovable force is a shield.

I don't know what to hate more: you for making the reference to vanilla WoW PVP rewards, or myself for immediately understanding what you were talking about.

lol! I'm just glad SOMEONE knew what I meant. I usually lose people on metaphors.

There's a number of reasons:

1: she's kinda pushy, she kinda slams into things full force, and doesn't let people breath,
2: Her aggressiveness and competitiveness gets mistranslated as being domineering and bitchy
3: She's single minded and doesn't mess with the social trifles and trivialities such as politeness, because they're only in the way
4: She has a hard time talking to people anyway, translations through Misha are only so effective, it must be frustrating.
(I've forgotten any other reasons that I've listed before to my friends)

Shizune is probably the one character I would consider dating in actuality..... though my wordyness would have problems considering she is deaf... Mostly because Rin is just way too similar to me, and Hanako would have my interest for awhile, but my semi-subconscious animal predatory drive would probably make me want to hunt her...

geekahedron wrote:Most of the "hate" really isn't, but is responded to as if it were. "Her story could be developed more? Why the hate? You just didn't understand it at all!" etc etc etc

True, true. But then you get 'gems' like this one:

So much Shizune hate here, which is gooooood!!!
KS is such a good game that is a shame to see the deaf bitch soil it.
We can only dream of a new edition without Shizune?

Shizune even garbages are more useful than you.

millea wrote:

geekahedron wrote:Most of the "hate" really isn't, but is responded to as if it were. "Her story could be developed more? Why the hate? You just didn't understand it at all!" etc etc etc

True, true. But then you get 'gems' like this one:

So much Shizune hate here, which is gooooood!!!
KS is such a good game that is a shame to see the deaf bitch soil it.
We can only dream of a new edition without Shizune?

Shizune even garbages are more useful than you.

Correction, then? People respond to neutral comments as if they were hate, and to the trolls as if they were serious.

A lot of us are talking about the current back and forths between Lilly and Shizune, but you're forgetting how it all started. "God damnit, Lilly, stop being such a lazy-ass dyke! You never do any work, and all you do is go help people! WHO JOINS THE STUDENT COUNCIL WITH THE INTENT OF MAKING THE SCHOOL A BETTER PLACE!?"

I believe it was more along the lines of 'I don't understand how such an ostensibly responsible person can drop all her duties to the Student Council (which works for the welfare of the entire student body) just to focus on an individual'. And shit, Lilly could probably have taken the time to explain her point of view and not be a passive-aggressive twat.

Like all high school spats, this is a bloody storm in a teacup. They'll look back on it with the benefit of a few more years of maturity and be embarrassed as hell about their silliness.

Shizune is probably what drove Lilly to drinking.