Re: A22's Blogpost
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:37 pm
She's not a tsundere.
The term tsundere is too hard for Shizune - a regular tsundere woul be much more bipolar and up to now she did not seem to be swaying between overly sweet and more forceful behaviour. She was more or less consistent with her rather individual character.Loki wrote:The tsundere that's in a position of power and uses it to force <CHARNAME> into doing her bidding, ect ect ect yada yada yada.
That is a wrong assumption - attention does not equal anything good. I know modern society is too lazy to distinguish between these two but as thoughtful people in a discussion we should do it. And if I remember correctly at least Aerie got most of her attention because she was horribly done and programmed in terms of personality.Loki wrote: But the fact she's apparently got such a reaction from people is actually a good thing. I remember in Baldur's Gate II a certain pair of characters got very strong reactions (Aerie and Anomen were their names if you didn't know... and Aerie was a winged elf that had actually had her wings amputated, so imagine a sort of cross between Hanako and Lilly and Emi or Rin. So she'd fit in at the school)
Why do you justify the perceived (and maybe true) impoliteness and thoughtlessness of these fictional characters with "They just want to get to know him."Caesius wrote:
Also, if I had a disability, and people I talked to knew I had a disability, but they don't know what that disability is, I wouldn't want them treating me any different just because I might die if I try to push them out of the way or whatever. Shizune and Misha knew Hisao had a disability, but they didn't show any interest in finding out what that disability was until they saw the pills in his room, so they just treated him like they would treat any other cute new guy. You might find that bitchy, but I think think it's great that they're like that.
I honestly have no idea what you guys are talking about when you say Shizune and Misha are inconsiderate regarding Hisao's disability. Could you elaborate a little bit?Deimos wrote:Why do you justify the perceived (and maybe true) impoliteness and thoughtlessness of these fictional characters with "They just want to get to know him."
To what lengths do people nowadays go before they stop? There are people with really nasty and deadly disabilities in Yamaku and should not the president of the student body be more considerate of her flock of little disabled sheep?
Normally, she (the president of the student body) probably would be more considerate of her flock. However, in a scene where Hisao is carting a can of paint for Rin and is accosted by the Nurse, he makes an observation about how the students and medical staff/adults are a tightly knit group. So with that in mind, Shizune and Misha wondering what kind of disability Hisao has is only natural and curious of them. Asking will sate their need to know and if Hisao ever has a heart attack in front of them they will know what to do quicker than if they never asked at all. In a way, she is being more considerate this way, looking out for his health; if not being a bit nosey in the process.Deimos wrote:Why do you justify the perceived (and maybe true) impoliteness and thoughtlessness of these fictional characters with "They just want to get to know him."To what lengths do people nowadays go before they stop? There are people with really nasty and deadly disabilities in Yamaku and should not the president of the student body be more considerate of her flock of little disabled sheep?
I would not say that they are inconsiderate towards the person called Hisao (and by extension the player) but they give me the impression that they prioritise their own goals (that is: getting to know Hisao and implementing him in Yamaku their way) rather than being a tiny little bit more empathic towards Hisao's situation.Caesius wrote:I honestly have no idea what you guys are talking about when you say Shizune and Misha are inconsiderate regarding Hisao's disability. Could you elaborate a little bit?Deimos wrote:Why do you justify the perceived (and maybe true) impoliteness and thoughtlessness of these fictional characters with "They just want to get to know him."
To what lengths do people nowadays go before they stop? There are people with really nasty and deadly disabilities in Yamaku and should not the president of the student body be more considerate of her flock of little disabled sheep?
A group of which Hisao is not a real member yet. When dealing with each other they are probably doing a good job but we should not forget that Hisao is the new kid in school and needs to be integrated and that is the essence of Act 1 and we choose our preferred heroine according to how we want to be treated.Out of the Loop wrote: Normally, she (the president of the student body) probably would be more considerate of her flock. However, in a scene where Hisao is carting a can of paint for Rin and is accosted by the Nurse, he makes an observation about how the students and medical staff/adults are a tightly knit group.
Okay. Here's how I see it: Although they do have their own goals regarding the Student Council and the festival, and Hisao comes at just the right time to help them, and they could very well have been entirely been motivated by their own needs to get to know Hisao at first (though I still think it was also because they thought he was cute and wanted to get to know him), I appreciate the way they didn't relentlessly prod Hisao about his disability out of childish curiosity like you would expect from someone who actually is motivated entirely by their own needs or curiosity. They seem to realize that Hisao is new to the school and probably still in denial regarding his mostly invisible disability, so they make him comfortable by treating him like a completely normal person and not making a big deal about his disability until he shows symptoms of his disability, for which they express concern.Deimos wrote:I would not say that they are inconsiderate towards the person called Hisao (and by extension the player) but they give me the impression that they prioritise their own goals (that is: getting to know Hisao and implementing him in Yamaku their way) rather than being a tiny little bit more empathic towards Hisao's situation.Caesius wrote:I honestly have no idea what you guys are talking about when you say Shizune and Misha are inconsiderate regarding Hisao's disability. Could you elaborate a little bit?Deimos wrote:Why do you justify the perceived (and maybe true) impoliteness and thoughtlessness of these fictional characters with "They just want to get to know him."
To what lengths do people nowadays go before they stop? There are people with really nasty and deadly disabilities in Yamaku and should not the president of the student body be more considerate of her flock of little disabled sheep?
And this can be repulsing for people who are annoyed by such a scenario.
And, you have quoted me but can you please answer my questions regarding the strength of your counterargument?
I will never deny the possibility that Misha and Shizune could turn out to be the most caring people concerning Hisao's condition. However I do not see substantial proof for that theory up to this point.Caesius wrote: Okay. Here's how I see it: Although they do have their own goals regarding the Student Council and the festival, and Hisao comes at just the right time to help them, and they could very well have been entirely been motivated by their own needs to get to know Hisao at first (though I still think it was also because they thought he was cute and wanted to get to know him), I appreciate the way they didn't relentlessly prod Hisao about his disability out of childish curiosity like you would expect from someone who actually is motivated entirely by their own needs or curiosity. They seem to realize that Hisao is new to the school and probably still in denial regarding his mostly invisible disability, so they make him comfortable by treating him like a completely normal person and not making a big deal about his disability until he shows symptoms of his disability, for which they express concern.
So to me, they are empathetic towards Hisao's situation -- at least as much as any of the other four girls are, in fact. By paying little attention to the fact that he has a disability, they give him personal space where it's most important (even if they ignore it in every other aspect, which I find to be more cute than inconsiderate). I can't say if they would've acted exactly the same way if he had came into the school without an arm or a leg, but I like to think that they would.
Well, considering even Misha -- who is basically a hyperactive freight train -- doesn't bug Hisao at all about his disability like you would expect her too, and I have a hard time believing that she's simply clueless, I do believe that the two made a conscious decision not to ask Hisao about his disability rather than simply ignoring it/pretending it's not there. Which is probably the best thing anyone can do for Hisao, especially compared to Hanako, who most likely doesn't bother asking Hisao about his disability because she's so preoccupied with her own condition as well as completely baffled by the fact that a seemingly completely normal person would take an interest in her -- and an apparently cute one at that.Deimos wrote:I will never deny the possibility that Misha and Shizune could turn out to be the most caring people concerning Hisao's condition. However I do not see substantial proof for that theory up to this point.
On a sidenote: I do acknowledge the fact that they are beneficial to Hisao.
And no girl in KS has shown childish curiousity about Hisao's predicament other than Rin with her fairly amusing guesses of him being - you know .
Caesius wrote: And I have a hard time believing that she's simply clueless, I do believe that the two made a conscious decision not to ask Hisao about his disability rather than simply ignoring it/pretending it's not there. Which is probably the best thing anyone can do for Hisao, especially compared to Hanako, who most likely doesn't bother asking Hisao about his disability because she's so preoccupied with her own condition as well as completely baffled by the fact that a seemingly completely normal person would take an interest in her -- and an apparently cute one at that.
Thankfully she does not tackle people in the halls.Caesius wrote: Well, considering even Misha -- who is basically a hyperactive freight train -- doesn't bug Hisao at all about his disability like you would expect her too.
Nicely written! Much better than my endless ramblings, awkward wording and too-much-into-detail nitpicking! And even some things I have not given too much thought up to this point. For example: the point with her dislike or frowning upon Hanako is very valid although the cause and extent can be subjected to debate!Malinor wrote: A very good post.
Dear KS Devs,Rin is not a mafia princess because of doubt that that could be made not fucking retarded.
If any of them involved cousins, sisters of any kind, maids, submarine captains, senpai, shrine maidens (but not nuns - those are icky), yangire, kuudere, teh rei, ghosts, mermaids, wolf gods or Harley Quinn, then I probably am happier now knowing about them.delta wrote:You better be happy that you don't know how many lolrandumb XD ideas that sound hilarious on paper but are actually just idiotic we threw out then.