Katawa Shoujo Forums

Envy wrote:

There are slogans everywhere "you can do everything but hear!" and so on

I should feel bad for laughing hard at that but I really don't.

Believe me, I'm laughing with you. Ironically, these slogans were a part (of the millions of reasons) of why I had severe depression. "You can do everything but hear"?! That's the most bullshit line I've heard in my life. I can't do millions of things.

Her real use, for me as a deaf person, is something of a security blanket of sorts. That's not to say she's a guard dog

She's a companion animal, that's the poltically correct term and how animals like her are recognized as by law.

She's not recognized as a companion animal by law. Companion Animals have the same rights as your household furniture and are considered "property" rather than a independent living thing. There are exceptions such as animal abuse and so on where they have more rights.

She is recognized as a Service Animal. The difference between the two is that Companion Animals have little to no rights, however as a Service Animal my dog is to be allowed public access to anywhere. For instance, I take her with me everywhere: on the plane (due to her size I am required to purchase a second seat), to stores, to restaurants, into hospitals, and so on. To deny my access based on her presence is a violation of our rights, and I am legally allowed to take them to court and I will win rather easily.

By law once I enter a building they are only allowed to ask me two questions: Is she a service animal, and do I have a disability. Beyond that I am not required to answer any questions, nor am I required to prove the two. Yes, that means people could lie to gain access. But Priscilla is far more well trained than most Service Animals.

To qualify as a Service Animal you must perform a function that alleviates three or more issues related to your disability. Many service dogs only have three to five, Priscilla meets seventeen. I know I'm probably being nitpicky, but Priscilla is important to me and it is important to me that she be defined accurately.

stalk wrote:To qualify as a Service Animal you must perform a function that alleviates three or more issues related to your disability. Many service dogs only have three to five, Priscilla meets seventeen. I know I'm probably being nitpicky, but Priscilla is important to me and it is important to me that she be defined accurately.

Priscilla sounds like she's Krypto the Superdog. Is there a list of approved issues somewhere on the web to take a gander at? And who actually regulates the definitions for them?

Linear B wrote:

stalk wrote:Most will refuse help - because being helped means they are disadvantaged and therefore cannot be allowed. Unless someone seems to have a clear hard time, most people won't help the other.

Can you explain this a little? I thought the point was that you're at the school because you're disadvantaged in some way. I understand the "don't help me, I'm totally fine" mentality, though.

You are correct that you are going to the school because you are disadvantaged, but it doesnt mean you have accepted you are at a disadvantage. For instance, part of the reason the school in the game is so serene and the people are so vibrant is because they've already accepted they are at a disadvantage, and welcome help. I.e. Shizune is not conscious of her need for an interpreter, the girl with no arms (i'm terrible with remembering names) didn't find it anything unusual that she was eating and painting with her feet, the girl without legs wasnt embarassed when she got knocked down and had to get up without legs, and so on.

None of them display any consciousness of their disability. Lilly is the same as well. They accept it when people stare at them, accept help readily when they need it, and so on. This is rare. Most people are always conscious of their disability on some level, and if they are not outwardly conscious of it, then its because they feel themselves to be invisible.

I know a little about this because a friend of mine is doing her PhD thesis on gay women with physical (visibly) disabilities and their sexual identity. Hanako (scarred girl) is somewhat accurate although her jumping and bailing and rather attention grabbing behavior at times don't quite fit the "norm". Most women with visible disabilities (missing limbs, etc) or "hideous" visible scarring feel as though they simply do not exist. They don't notice the people paying attention to them because as far as they are concerned, they are invisible. It's sad but often true.

Linear B wrote:

stalk wrote:To qualify as a Service Animal you must perform a function that alleviates three or more issues related to your disability. Many service dogs only have three to five, Priscilla meets seventeen. I know I'm probably being nitpicky, but Priscilla is important to me and it is important to me that she be defined accurately.

Priscilla sounds like she's Krypto the Superdog. Is there a list of approved issues somewhere on the web to take a gander at? And who actually regulates the definitions for them?

It's regulated by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).

http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm is a basic overview

http://servicedogcentral.org/content/ is a excellent resource

I'm trying to find the list of tasks but my search is failing me lol.

stalk wrote:She's not recognized as a companion animal by law. Companion Animals have the same rights as your household furniture and are considered "property" rather than a independent living thing. There are exceptions such as animal abuse and so on where they have more rights.

I think it's a little different under UK/EU law but I'm not prepared to quote any documents or find them.

Envy wrote:

stalk wrote:She's not recognized as a companion animal by law. Companion Animals have the same rights as your household furniture and are considered "property" rather than a independent living thing. There are exceptions such as animal abuse and so on where they have more rights.

I think it's a little different under UK/EU law but I'm not prepared to quote any documents or find them.

Ah, I didn't realize you were not from the USA. My mistake, my comments pertained to the USA only. I have no clue how it works in other places.

I couldnt think if I should post it elsewhere or what. But since this is really the only thread I participate in, I guess I should add it here.

I was having an amusing thought earlier. I was wondering what the ero-scenes with Shizune would be like. I thought to myself that there would definitely be a scene with MishaxShizune in it together. Because I mean, they are always together. So continuing down that line of thought I was thinking of what if Shizune was actually rather shy about having sex. And she tells Hisao "Please put it in gently...." and Misha, in her usual excessively happy translation, would translate it as "J-J-J-JAM IT IN!! Wahahahahahahaha!" Followed with Shizune screaming bloody murder.

Anyway the thought made me laugh, and I started remembering my first time. God, it was awful. Haha.

--EDIT-- Immediately after reading this, I see Hisao think "I wonder if people discussing in sign ever accidentally poke each other in the eyes." and burst out laughing. I can't tell how many times I've heard this kind of thing.

I've never actually hit the person I'm talking to, but sometimes while doing a big, animated sign, I accidently slam my hand into a innocent bystander walking past me. Haha.

stalk wrote: I was having an amusing thought earlier. I was wondering what the ero-scenes with Shizune would be like. I thought to myself that there would definitely be a scene with MishaxShizune in it together. Because I mean, they are always together. So continuing down that line of thought I was thinking of what if Shizune was actually rather shy about having sex. And she tells Hisao "Please put it in gently...." and Misha, in her usual excessively happy translation, would translate it as "J-J-J-JAM IT IN!! Wahahahahahahaha!" Followed with Shizune screaming bloody murder.

Funny as hell, but unfortunately the devs have stated as much that in order to get together with Shizune you need to attend sign language class (and presumably not fail). I'm thinking of the same scene sans Misha: Shizune signs but Hisao doesn't understand it all, so he stops and goes to grab his sign language textbook. Shizune gets annoyed and grabs a pen and paper, writes it down, and then Hisao goes "Oh" and the sexing commences.

Immediately after reading this, I see Hisao think "I wonder if people discussing in sign ever accidentally poke each other in the eyes." and burst out laughing. I can't tell how many times I've heard this kind of thing.

So, do you?

Linear B wrote:

stalk wrote: I was having an amusing thought earlier. I was wondering what the ero-scenes with Shizune would be like. I thought to myself that there would definitely be a scene with MishaxShizune in it together. Because I mean, they are always together. So continuing down that line of thought I was thinking of what if Shizune was actually rather shy about having sex. And she tells Hisao "Please put it in gently...." and Misha, in her usual excessively happy translation, would translate it as "J-J-J-JAM IT IN!! Wahahahahahahaha!" Followed with Shizune screaming bloody murder.

Funny as hell, but unfortunately the devs have stated as much that in order to get together with Shizune you need to attend sign language class (and presumably not fail). I'm thinking of the same scene sans Misha: Shizune signs but Hisao doesn't understand it all, so he stops and goes to grab his sign language textbook. Shizune gets annoyed and grabs a pen and paper, writes it down, and then Hisao goes "Oh" and the sexing commences.

Oh my goodness, really? That's rather interesting. There's few ways to turn me off or get dumped by me or outright ignored by me than someone saying they would like to learn sign language to talk to me. Even if they actually go to a class I would still write them off as "not a friend anymore." But I guess it does sound like a noble thing to do to most hearing people.

Immediately after reading this, I see Hisao think "I wonder if people discussing in sign ever accidentally poke each other in the eyes." and burst out laughing. I can't tell how many times I've heard this kind of thing.

So, do you?

I think you missed the last sentence of my post where I answered whether I do or not. The last line of my post was: "I've never actually hit the person I'm talking to, but sometimes while doing a big, animated sign, I accidently slam my hand into a innocent bystander walking past me. Haha."


----EDIT----

Kenji: "No! It doesnt matter! I heard the student council president is insane... that whoever it is never talks and only gives orders through flunkies!"

Oh my goooooooooood. I'm laughing so hard that I'm crying. Well played!

stalk wrote: Oh my goodness, really? That's rather interesting. There's few ways to turn me off or get dumped by me or outright ignored by me than someone saying they would like to learn sign language to talk to me. Even if they actually go to a class I would still write them off as "not a friend anymore." But I guess it does sound like a noble thing to do to most hearing people.

It doesn't sound noble to me, more like "I like this person, and I want to be able to understand them and talk to them with less hassle for both of us". My paternal grandparents don't speak a lick of English, and while I got on last time by speaking French to them (they and I both took it in school), I want to learn Portuguese so I can speak to them straight. They're old and we live on another continent, so it's not really conceivable that they go ahead and learn English, and it's not really conceivable for Shizune to learn oral Japanese. She could presumably, but it would take years of specialized classes to pull it off and is very, very hard. It probably seems patronizing, but it's far more practical for hearing people to learn sign language than for them to expect their deaf friends to learn an oral one.

In regard to Shizune, could it have been progressive hearing loss?

That's what a friend had. He could hear good for the 1st 5 or so years of his life, then at about 15, he was completely deaf. He could still write perfectly coherent and grammatically proper sentences and stuff (better than I can, it's an obsession with him, perfection in language), as well as sign. He's 24 now, and can still write better than I can... so could that explain Shizune?

Although, my friends decent ability to read lips helps a bit, I suppose.

Linear B wrote:

stalk wrote: Oh my goodness, really? That's rather interesting. There's few ways to turn me off or get dumped by me or outright ignored by me than someone saying they would like to learn sign language to talk to me. Even if they actually go to a class I would still write them off as "not a friend anymore." But I guess it does sound like a noble thing to do to most hearing people.

It doesn't sound noble to me, more like "I like this person, and I want to be able to understand them and talk to them with less hassle for both of us". My paternal grandparents don't speak a lick of English, and while I got on last time by speaking French to them (they and I both took it in school), I want to learn Portuguese so I can speak to them straight. They're old and we live on another continent, so it's not really conceivable that they go ahead and learn English, and it's not really conceivable for Shizune to learn oral Japanese. She could presumably, but it would take years of specialized classes to pull it off and is very, very hard. It probably seems patronizing, but it's far more practical for hearing people to learn sign language than for them to expect their deaf friends to learn an oral one.

That's not really the point. Its more like... if I had a 1/10th of a penny for every time someone said they'd learn sign language to talk to me, bill gates would be asking me how I made my success. When I stopped believing people would learn sign language for me, I had a new brand of people, after hearing how negative I was about it and disregarding their attempts to learn sign language. They would tell me that they understand, and that they are not like the others. I guess I wanted to believe it too, so I once again believed in it, and once again was disappointed over and over and over again.

Everyone from my best friends, to my own family, extended family, and just random friends I've met have promised to learn sign to talk to me. None of them ever followed through. For the vast majority of deaf people, that is how it is. I absolutely hate hearing that line at this point. There's other reasons too. It makes me feel like it takes work to be my friend. And it makes me feel like I'm obligated to be theirs. I can't name how many guys tried to possess me by the mere fact they were attending a sign language class. Since they were putting some effort into it, I now belong to them. I hate hate hate it.

I've been disappointed so many times that I just don't want to be disappointed anymore. So if someone tells me they will learn sign language for me, I will tell them to not bother. If they persist, I will stop contact with them. That's just how I feel, and how most deaf people feel, about hearing people. Maybe it sounds cynical but after being burned by it all our lives, who would put that kind of faith in it over and over again?

The Chemist wrote:In regard to Shizune, could it have been progressive hearing loss?

That's what a friend had. He could hear good for the 1st 5 or so years of his life, then at about 15, he was completely deaf. He could still write perfectly coherent and grammatically proper sentences and stuff (better than I can, it's an obsession with him, perfection in language), as well as sign. He's 24 now, and can still write better than I can... so could that explain Shizune?

Although, my friends decent ability to read lips helps a bit, I suppose.

Progressive hearing loss is unlikely considering she is mute. Damage to vocal chords simulateously as damage to the ears? It would be hard for me to believe. Being born deaf is a more likely explanation.

stalk wrote:That's not really the point. Its more like... if I had a 1/10th of a penny for every time someone said they'd learn sign language to talk to me, bill gates would be asking me how I made my success. When I stopped believing people would learn sign language for me, I had a new brand of people, after hearing how negative I was about it and disregarding their attempts to learn sign language. They would tell me that they understand, and that they are not like the others. I guess I wanted to believe it too, so I once again believed in it, and once again was disappointed over and over and over again.

Everyone from my best friends, to my own family, extended family, and just random friends I've met have promised to learn sign to talk to me. None of them ever followed through. For the vast majority of deaf people, that is how it is. I absolutely hate hearing that line at this point. There's other reasons too. It makes me feel like it takes work to be my friend. And it makes me feel like I'm obligated to be theirs. I can't name how many guys tried to possess me by the mere fact they were attending a sign language class. Since they were putting some effort into it, I now belong to them. I hate hate hate it.

I've been disappointed so many times that I just don't want to be disappointed anymore. So if someone tells me they will learn sign language for me, I will tell them to not bother. If they persist, I will stop contact with them. That's just how I feel, and how most deaf people feel, about hearing people. Maybe it sounds cynical but after being burned by it all our lives, who would put that kind of faith in it over and over again?

Teh suck all around. Pretty much what I figured, though. People are lame.

stalk wrote:

The Chemist wrote:In regard to Shizune, could it have been progressive hearing loss?

That's what a friend had. He could hear good for the 1st 5 or so years of his life, then at about 15, he was completely deaf. He could still write perfectly coherent and grammatically proper sentences and stuff (better than I can, it's an obsession with him, perfection in language), as well as sign. He's 24 now, and can still write better than I can... so could that explain Shizune?

Although, my friends decent ability to read lips helps a bit, I suppose.

Progressive hearing loss is unlikely considering she is mute. Damage to vocal chords simulateously as damage to the ears? It would be hard for me to believe. Being born deaf is a more likely explanation.

Maybe she was never able to talk anyways... it happens.

I can barely see colors, and don't have much of a sense of smell.