Katawa Shoujo Forums

Helbereth wrote:

BlackWaltzTheThird wrote:Having reread this whole story, and seeing what just how little ties there are the Katawa Shoujo beyong(sic) the setting, I'm inclined to think this would have been better off taking that one extra step and making it an entirely original story altogether. The story would not lose anything in doing so. But, all things considered, for a first work of fiction it holds up reasonably well.

I love how bipolar this paragraph is; you completely called your own story an utter failure at its directive, then announced that it "holds up reasonably well". That's like an EMT saying his heart attack victim died, but the funeral was nice.

I've always liked the saying "Well, the operation was a success but the patient died," myself.

Helbereth wrote:

BlackWaltzTheThird wrote:Having reread this whole story, and seeing what just how little ties there are the Katawa Shoujo beyong(sic) the setting, I'm inclined to think this would have been better off taking that one extra step and making it an entirely original story altogether. The story would not lose anything in doing so. But, all things considered, for a first work of fiction it holds up reasonably well.

I love how bipolar this paragraph is; you completely called your own story an utter failure at its directive, then announced that it "holds up reasonably well". That's like an EMT saying his heart attack victim died, but the funeral was nice.

Note that I said "for a first work of fiction" and not "...KS fiction". It holds up reasonably well as a story, period, but less so as a KS story.

In any case, it's good to have an excuse to read Can You Open Your Heart? again. May be somewhat late though, owing to finals.

Heh, and I had JUST read Can You Open Your Heart? again.

Perfect timing.

I do believe its that time, lets do it. Link is up and all that.

Is it bad that I actually thought the neutral ending was the best ending? Hisao gets to ditch Rika, and he gets a shot at an Emi route.

Honestly, I actually struggle to believe the good ending, and suspect that Rika's fatalism isn't actually cured by Hisao's magical healing wand of emotions. She's still ultimately going to drag Hisao down with her.

As far as Rika's characterization goes... I think her fatalism is portrayed as being more than a little over the top, and I suspect that Rika's personality is far more resentful than fatalist, considering my headcanon of her backstory (not in this story at all).

Her point of view on Hanako, for what it's worth, is actually interesting, and lines up with my headcanon. With the right support, especially Akira, Hanako really will grow into a "you can like me, and that's great, or you can hate me, and you can go fuck yourself, and I'm not going to seek your approval" personality with time. (My headcanon is that in the right circumstances, she ends up putting the entirety of Japan in the "you can go fuck yourself" category, at some point in her adulthood.)

I thought that Rika's characterisation was strong, making her a sad, and (to me at least) not very likeable person. Given the very sparse amount of 1Apr information given, and my own research into her medical condition, I was driven by Rikabro's writing to ponder what else could have been or might have been. Hisao's condition is actually more survivable without this particular Rika.

My own image of Rika, based initially on the one 4LS provided, morphed into something like Zealot (the Kherubim warrior from the old Wildstorm continuity) but a lot more feminine. As for bhtooefr's ideas on Hanako, well, yes—I also think Hanako would do better away from Japan.

Perhaps the best way to see Rikabro's Rika is this, from towards the end: "He hated me because he understood me." This is what makes it so powerful: I think Rika is a tragic character because she knows she is not a good person, or at least, not in a good state—and unlikely ever to be in such a positive situation—but she does, like any of us, want to be loved.

bhtooefr wrote:Is it bad that I actually thought the neutral ending was the best ending? Hisao gets to ditch Rika, and he gets a shot at an Emi route.

Honestly, I actually struggle to believe the good ending, and suspect that Rika's fatalism isn't actually cured by Hisao's magical healing wand of emotions. She's still ultimately going to drag Hisao down with her.

All of this. I'd put quotes around "good", because really it's not all that good an ending for anybody. It's one of the few stories I've read where I came out actively disliking Hisao, which I suppose is some sort of accomplishment. I think the height of that was when he was writing his letter back to Iwanako.

However, right now, what I think bothers me more than anything is that even though I only read this story a few days ago, I'm struggling to remember it. Back when I mentioned Rika in Developments, I said that I hadn't read any Rika stories. I was wrong - when I was reading this, I realized that I'd read it before, but didn't remember reading it. That's very unusual for me. This time, I remember having a fair amount to say, and a good chunk of it was positive, but now...I don't know what any of it was, other than what's being jogged by others' comments. Sorry , but I suppose the fact that it left nearly no lasting impression is probably worth noting itself. Even worse is that I feel like it should have.

Anyway...moving on, I guess?

Hm. I suppose I'm a little more optimistic regarding Rika's state of mind at the end. Unless I read into things wrong, most of her worldview was impressed on her by her boyfriend, whose death pretty much reinforced those beliefs. She similarly tried to impress them onto Hisao, and almost succeeded. But in the end, he remains himself in spite of her, and that's something that fascinates Rika. Perhaps that is why she fell in love with him to begin with? At any rate, I do think that she can change, though hopefully of her own volition.

That being said, the fic is a tad overdramatic at times. The Bad Ending in particular seems a bit over the top, as does the scene where Rika and Hisao have magical forest sex. I wonder at times why Hisao puts up with her, but then I remember that with this being her route, she is essentially the one that shapes his otherwise bland character. I am probably looking into it too much, but her influence almost seems to be emphasized with a meta perspective. If that makes any sense.

Though ironically, my favorite character in this fic was probably Lelouch. Funny, considering that I found his Code Geass incarnation utterly insufferable.

I thought it was a good story and felt Rika was a strong memorable character. It's just that the good ending felt forced. Rika simply turned around and became a better person too quickly.

If this story hadn't HAD a good ending, I think it would have worked quite a bit better. So much of the story builds Rika up to be a person that not only is too far gone to save, but doesn't seem to want to be saved anyway.

bhtooefr wrote:Is it bad that I actually thought the neutral ending was the best ending? Hisao gets to ditch Rika, and he gets a shot at an Emi route.

I think that many probably would share the same opinion, including myself. As others have mentioned, the other two endings seem a bit forced, especially the "good" ending. I would say the writing is uneven at times, but the author mentioned that sometimes additions would be rushed, but because there isn't any lulls after serial writing has finished, I think that the story is less disjointed than if I followed the story from the beginning.

brythain wrote:I thought that Rika's characterisation was strong, making her a sad, and (to me at least) not very likeable person. Given the very sparse amount of 1Apr information given, and my own research into her medical condition, I was driven by Rikabro's writing to ponder what else could have been or might have been.

Well, there is only so much you can take from that kind of source material. I liked the take that Rikabro did, though it seemed dark for the sake of being dark at times. Heck, after Emi explained that Rika's ex-boyfriend died, I thought the story was going into horror territory.

dewelar wrote:However, right now, what I think bothers me more than anything is that even though I only read this story a few days ago, I'm struggling to remember it.

I'd say that there are more than a few plot threads that just didn't seem to set up the story that much. I'd say the whole camping thing with Miki/Lelouch/Takashi felt too different from the rest of the story, especially from the other things that had happened (Rika going back to the hospital). I think that someone in the thread had mentioned that Rikabro was stuck writing into a corner, and it definitely seemed that way with the last part of the story. Things were wrapping up a little too well and a little too fast for my tastes.

The only thing that I liked about the route as a whole was the emotional tension. I think that was exacerbated with the other endings, but it was tolerable. For the length of writing involved, I'd say that's an accomplishment. I share dewelar's sentiment that Hisao is an absolutely terrible person in this route though. However, I think that it works well because of the nature of the relationship, which for the most part was self-destructive and fatalistic. It made the "bad" endings seem like redemption in a way. Again, it seemed like this whole thing was gonna go the horror route.

I'll be frank and admit that I didn't like this story very much.
Not the technical side - that one was actually quite good if I recall correctly - no, it was simply a story I did not enjoy reading, and there are two main reasons for that:
1. Rika was so unlikeable that I was actually hoping for Hisao to dump her most of the time, which nicely leads to
2. Hisao was alternately either stupid, beta or both to a degree that I found it impossible to identify with him - always a bad thing for a story but worse for one told by a first person narrator.
In the end I didn't care for either of the two main characters. Why should I be sad if they get killed during their shenanigans? It's their own damn fault!

Oddball wrote:I thought it was a good story and felt Rika was a strong memorable character. It's just that the good ending felt forced. Rika simply turned around and became a better person too quickly.

I would be generous and say that the good ending felt rushed rather than forced. But, that's just me. However, I'm glad that ending is there. Even unlikeable characters deserve a shot at happiness.

Righto ladies, gentlemen, and variations there upon, our next story is a suggestion from the esteemable Mirage.

Victory Day
A multi-part Shizune PoV story featuring a slightly different Hisao.
Many guest appearances of other anime characters.

Se y'all on the 14th.

Oh, I do believe I've read that one before. Excellent. Anyway, slightly late on the Rika route, as I expected:

I liked act 2 best. The views of Hisao and Rika were noticeably different (well, Hisao more than Rika) than in later acts; specifically, after the heart-to-heart under the tree outside Hisao's room. After that point, since the continuation was based upon Hisao choosing to march to the beat of Rika's drum, the story kind of lost traction a bit. It had good points, in particular anything involving Lelouche; I especially liked his note regarding how to keep the fireflies alive. Personally, I think the neutral end is the better one; it resolves itself better than the true end does. The true end leaves Emi's outburst open, we never get any follow up with Miki and co. and neither Hisao nor Rika really learn anything from it, instead just magically coming to this sort of acceptance about things that (probably deliberately) mirrors one of the early chapters. Maybe I'm just biased, cause I like Emi infinitely more than I like act 3-4 Rika.

Sea wrote:Righto ladies, gentlemen, and variations thereupon, our next story is a recommendation from the esteemable Mirage.

...
I wouldn't call it a recommendation - in fact of all my stories this is the one I would recommend last for reading.

Let's say it was a suggestion, because I think it offers plenty of material for discussion. I'm kind of interested in how many way this will be ripped apart