Katawa Shoujo Forums

N. Bekkler wrote:

U.T. Raptor wrote:The neutral ending should have ended on the scene before that (where Hisao's lying in the hospital bed going "welp, I fucked that up"), now that I think about it, for that extra knife twist.

Yes, absolutely yes.

I simply can not understand why the neutral ending ended when it did. The woman Hisao is in love with is leaving forever and he can't muster as much as a "Please, don't go"?

Bullshit, I say. That scene of him making a mad dash to the airport and in the hospital afterwards were the perfect way to end Lilly's arc. Letting it stop as soon as she leaves Yamaku is horribly unsatisfying and makes Hisao look like a spineless twerp. If he's not willing to fight for her, then he probably doesn't deserve her.

But then the Good Ending comes and makes the entire arc feel complete in the best way possible. This is only my second completed route (Emi being my first), and I can't wait to see if this one can be topped.

That's more like a bad ending to Lilly's story. Hisao would have tried, and failed, to get Lilly back and keep her from leaving. Her neutral ending is just that, neutral. They part ways, not happy about it, but of mutual agreement and with no hard feelings between them.

Chasing after the love of your life only to nearly die and still fail in that one simple goal seems pretty far from neutral. That's just my two cents, though.

Although that would be quite the roller coaster of feels. Perhaps that and an epilogue would make a pretty good fic.

I don't think it would have worked to have Hisao run after her and just fail to get Lily - he'd have to be killed off or something. You could have a
Bad: Ooops he tried running but died because he exercised too little.
Neutral: Welp, guess long-distance relationship won't work. Well, it was nice what we got.
Good: Lily comes back, or Hisao becomes a Scot.

The substantial difference here is that Hisao works up the guts to try and get her back - to let his love for her have consequences for their lives instead of just letting Lily be his white knight for the rest of the school year.

Seems like a bad ending that fits the rest of the route would simply have her leaving for Scotland, but actually breaking it off and leaving on bad terms with Hisao, leaving no chance for future communication or for things to ever work out. To me that lines up with the other girls' arcs as well as fitting in with the existing Lilly story. Killing him off in the airport just seems like a horribly twisted way to end things...

Well, I thought I had to keep myself from dying if I was going to end up with any girls - that's why I ended up on the Emi path as my first one, because I thought exercising with her was a prerequisite to keeping alive.

geekahedron wrote:Seems like a bad ending that fits the rest of the route would simply have her leaving for Scotland, but actually breaking it off and leaving on bad terms with Hisao, leaving no chance for future communication or for things to ever work out. To me that lines up with the other girls' arcs as well as fitting in with the existing Lilly story. Killing him off in the airport just seems like a horribly twisted way to end things...

He dies in the Act 1 bad ending. Still not technically the same thing, but Hisao's death isn't completely unheard of.

Acerus wrote:

N. Bekkler wrote:

U.T. Raptor wrote:The neutral ending should have ended on the scene before that (where Hisao's lying in the hospital bed going "welp, I fucked that up"), now that I think about it, for that extra knife twist.

Yes, absolutely yes.

I simply can not understand why the neutral ending ended when it did. The woman Hisao is in love with is leaving forever and he can't muster as much as a "Please, don't go"?

Bullshit, I say. That scene of him making a mad dash to the airport and in the hospital afterwards were the perfect way to end Lilly's arc. Letting it stop as soon as she leaves Yamaku is horribly unsatisfying and makes Hisao look like a spineless twerp. If he's not willing to fight for her, then he probably doesn't deserve her.

But then the Good Ending comes and makes the entire arc feel complete in the best way possible. This is only my second completed route (Emi being my first), and I can't wait to see if this one can be topped.

That's more like a bad ending to Lilly's story. Hisao would have tried, and failed, to get Lilly back and keep her from leaving. Her neutral ending is just that, neutral. They part ways, not happy about it, but of mutual agreement and with no hard feelings between them.

Chasing after the love of your life only to nearly die and still fail in that one simple goal seems pretty far from neutral. That's just my two cents, though.

Although that would be quite the roller coaster of feels. Perhaps that and an epilogue would make a pretty good fic.

My point exactly - I think that having a soul crushing bad ending would have been better than a neutral ending that left a feeling of disappointment and regret after just letting her walk away without a fight. It would have been a much stronger note to end the story on. The neutral ending as it stands bothered me because Hisao went from saying that he would never leave and wanting to stay with her to letting her leave without trying to stop her in any way. The bad ending I propose, as horrible as it sounds, would have at least made Hisao fight for her - just letting her walk away in the neutral ending feels so incomplete and out of character.

I'm not saying that the neutral ending should be replaced, far from it in fact. I just think that limiting the endings to good and neutral missed an opportunity.

But that's just me.

The problem with good bad ends is that it actually requires a substantial effort from the writer. Shizune got the longest bad end and it shows (well, to those who like her). If something similar would have been done for Lilly, I suppose it would have branched off after "Farewell". Maybe playing out some of the problems of a long distance relationship after having your bad choices come back to bite you. If after that she breaks it off and says she doesn't want to see you anymore because she can't trust you to be honest, you could have something that would be crushing.

But that's also half an extra act to write for something that people may not want to experience. To get the emotion right is probably not easy either. At the end of the day, you have to wonder whether the effort is worth it for the few that can appreciate it.

DeleV wrote:Shizune got the longest bad end and it shows (well, to those who like her). If something similar would have been done for Lilly, I suppose it would have branched off after "Farewell". Maybe playing out some of the problems of a long distance relationship after having your bad choices come back to bite you. If after that she breaks it off and says she doesn't want to see you anymore because she can't trust you to be honest, you could have something that would be crushing.

Actually, that sounds like a neutral ending (and a pretty damn good one at that). I was just thinking about how to shoehorn another ending into the story as is, but adding another path dealing with the problems of a long distance relationship could have been quite interesting. However...

DeleV wrote:But that's also half an extra act to write for something that people may not want to experience. To get the emotion right is probably not easy either. At the end of the day, you have to wonder whether the effort is worth it for the few that can appreciate it.

...you raise another good point. The opportunity cost for making such a route would probably have been too high. Given the response to this game I'm sure that people would love to see as much content as possible, but there are limits to what the developers and writers can do.

On that note, how dare you strike down my ranting and shortsighted musings with a logical and reasoned argument? I would be offended if I wasn't so introspective right now

N. Bekkler wrote:On that note, how dare you strike down my ranting and shortsighted musings with a logical and reasoned argument? I would be offended if I wasn't so introspective right now

It's who I am. It's also why I favour Shizune above Lilly. *quickly leaves this thread*

Alright, figure i'll pop in here seeing how Lily's arc is the one that made me want to post...

Now most of what's been said about it has been said, and for the most part I thought it was a sweet romance up to the last bit, with them being pretty close physically and such as to be expected with by a couple of kids in love...

But that last scene....

THAT'S the one that made me tear up a bit, I've done Emi's and Hanako's arc (love Hanako btw) but the guy dashing to the airport, not giving a damn about his own body to say his words to the women he loves even if she leaves forever...

And to see him fall and slowly (it seemed) die as his last view and words where of her walking away from him, well hell, you couldn't ask for a more touching tragic ending.

Thank god she came back,that she did and decided to stay showed me just how much she really cared for him and what they meant to each other.

I'm an old school romantic at heart so this game has sorta struck me in odd ways (Kanji has of course provided much of the laughs) and I've not be displeased with any arc so far (I DO wish there was a bit more to Hanako's but hey I'm just glad they confessed finally after all four damn chapters) but Lily, well now she got me right there ya know.

I'll reckon I'll leave off with this bit, at the end the last scene with her, this song sorta sprang to mind...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxMeu34o ... plpp_video

Thank you creative team that brought this up, I figured I was like the rest when I heard the words "Cripple Dating Sim" but this, this is a damn good story well worth reading!

Not sure if anyone raised this before, but I decided to deduct Lilly's path 1 point due to the way Lilly opened up to Hisao about her feelings. It was a too much of a corny soap opera, I think. The rest was really good, even though the ending was a bit cliched. That being said, the ending was an emotional rollercoater, so it still had the desired effect. Also, [Hanako spoiler:]I really liked how Hanako became more confident and less dependent during Lilly's path. That made me happy. Some of those elements should have been implemented in Hanako's path.

This was a funny moment that happened to me.

So I finished Lilly's route a while back. Although it was still fresh in my mind. It was a nice day outside so I decided to go for a walk. After a while I started to get pins and needles in my legs. Suddenly a thought popped into my mind from Lilly's route. SPOILERS: Remember when you were at the summer house with Lilly and Hanako and you went to the walk to town and just before Hisao had his heart flutter he was saying he had pins and needles in his legs. Well I got pins and needles in my leg when that thought came in my head so I litterally sat on the the side walk checking my pulse until I remembered that it is just a game.

Tachikoma wrote:Also, [Hanako spoiler:]I really liked how Hanako became more confident and less dependent during Lilly's path. That made me happy. Some of those elements should have been implemented in Hanako's path.

Well, keep in mind that in Hanako's path she's making trips to the Shanghi, the park, and even into the city in broad daylight BY HERSELF before Lilly even gets back from Scotland. She doesn't progress nearly that quick in Lilly's route.

Oddball wrote:

Tachikoma wrote:Also, [Hanako spoiler:]I really liked how Hanako became more confident and less dependent during Lilly's path. That made me happy. Some of those elements should have been implemented in Hanako's path.

Well, keep in mind that in Hanako's path she's making trips to the Shanghi, the park, and even into the city in broad daylight BY HERSELF before Lilly even gets back from Scotland. She doesn't progress nearly that quick in Lilly's route.

It's slower, yes, but Hanako is further along, I think, by the end of Lilly's route - which ends much later in the year, of course.

I might have to go back over Lilly's route to explore and find the bad ending - I apparently have a knack for making the good decisions and actually got all 5 good endings without fail. I re-explored Rin's, Emi's and Shizune's routes to find the bad endings there, but didn't go back over Lilly's. Tomorrow, perhaps.

in lillys route its disturbing that they have sex in the house but isn't like Hanako in the house????! if she's not i might have missed something which then i have to change my new pic i made :3