Katawa Shoujo Forums

d2r wrote:

Oddball wrote:Instead of experiencing the events and emotions alongside Hisao, you're just reading them. There's no connection there.

This I disagree with entirely. What you're saying implies that when I read a "true" novel (or, for that matter, watch a movie or play a linear video game), I can't experience the events and emotions alongside its character because of the fact that a novel offers me no choices in the first place and I'm just "reading" it. Which is obviously false.

Yeah, "no connection" is an exaggeration. "A different level of connection", however, wouldn't be. The word "immersion" was brought up, and I think that's a valid way of looking at it. As was also mentioned above, if you're using a flow chart to guide you along, you don't have to think about the decisions you're making. You (most likely) make them, you read the story, and then you move on, rather than taking the time to wonder why this decision is important, or why it affects the story in the way it does. If that's an experience you'd rather forgo, that's fine, as long as you understand that you're intentionally forgoing it, and in the process potentially losing out on the opportunity to learn something about both the story and yourself. It's not wrong. It's just...less.

dewelar wrote:

d2r wrote:

Oddball wrote:Instead of experiencing the events and emotions alongside Hisao, you're just reading them. There's no connection there.

This I disagree with entirely. What you're saying implies that when I read a "true" novel (or, for that matter, watch a movie or play a linear video game), I can't experience the events and emotions alongside its character because of the fact that a novel offers me no choices in the first place and I'm just "reading" it. Which is obviously false.

Yeah, "no connection" is an exaggeration. "A different level of connection", however, wouldn't be. The word "immersion" was brought up, and I think that's a valid way of looking at it. As was also mentioned above, if you're using a flow chart to guide you along, you don't have to think about the decisions you're making. You (most likely) make them, you read the story, and then you move on, rather than taking the time to wonder why this decision is important, or why it affects the story in the way it does. If that's an experience you'd rather forgo, that's fine, as long as you understand that you're intentionally forgoing it, and in the process potentially losing out on the opportunity to learn something about both the story and yourself. It's not wrong. It's just...less.

I don't even think it was less, for me. It was merely different.

I did it because I wanted to experience the stories in the manner I wanted them experienced, and it helped in avoiding some of the VN's flawed choice areas (the big ones being Push/Easy, where almost anyone would choose to push and thereby end up on Emi's route even if they were going for someone else; and "A Brief History of Thyme" in Lilly's route, where deciding not to open yourself up early on locks you into a certain ending). For me, those would have only been frustrating.

Also, it gave me the advantage, metatextually, of being able to form a pleasing "arc" effect with my endings :p

d2r wrote:I don't even think it was less, for me. It was merely different.

I did it because I wanted to experience the stories in the manner I wanted them experienced, and it helped in avoiding some of the VN's flawed choice areas (the big ones being Push/Easy, where almost anyone would choose to push and thereby end up on Emi's route even if they were going for someone else; and "A Brief History of Thyme" in Lilly's route, where deciding not to open yourself up early on locks you into a certain ending). For me, those would have only been frustrating.

Also, it gave me the advantage, metatextually, of being able to form a pleasing "arc" effect with my endings :p

I think it's a valid aesthetic expression to attempt to build 'meta' on someone else's art. Yes, different, but valid. A structured approach to experiencing a VN, just like how someone I know scans paintings visually in a (to others) weird pattern; IRL this person's a radiologist, so that explains the approach.

brythain wrote:

d2r wrote:I don't even think it was less, for me. It was merely different.

I did it because I wanted to experience the stories in the manner I wanted them experienced, and it helped in avoiding some of the VN's flawed choice areas (the big ones being Push/Easy, where almost anyone would choose to push and thereby end up on Emi's route even if they were going for someone else; and "A Brief History of Thyme" in Lilly's route, where deciding not to open yourself up early on locks you into a certain ending). For me, those would have only been frustrating.

Also, it gave me the advantage, metatextually, of being able to form a pleasing "arc" effect with my endings :p

I think it's a valid aesthetic expression to attempt to build 'meta' on someone else's art. Yes, different, but valid. A structured approach to experiencing a VN, just like how someone I know scans paintings visually in a (to others) weird pattern; IRL this person's a radiologist, so that explains the approach.

This guy gets it.

d2r wrote: I did it because I wanted to experience the stories in the manner I wanted them experienced, and it helped in avoiding some of the VN's flawed choice areas (the big ones being Push/Easy, where almost anyone would choose to push and thereby end up on Emi's route even if they were going for someone else...

That's where I put the flowcharts to use. After my Emi run (the natural outcome of my unspoiled choices), I wanted to tackle the other routes in a certain order, and I found the flowcharts useful in ensuring I was able to do so. Once I got on the route, the only thing the flowcharts did for me was to confirm what I picked up through the experiencing the route, so I never really bothered with them after that point.

I actually used the flowcharts to see if there were any routes I'd missed. Some choices I would never have made on my own, and some I'd forgotten if I'd ever done. So to finish the whole thing (or to check if I had), I had help. I also used them to go back through the whole VN when I'd reached 100% because I wanted to savour certain scenes again in the light of other discoveries, and compare what I thought I'd seen with what there actually was.

brythain wrote:I wanted to savour certain scenes again in the light of other discoveries

Isn't that what the library is for?

Potato wrote:

brythain wrote:I wanted to savour certain scenes again in the light of other discoveries

Isn't that what the library is for?

Technically, you need to reload saves if you want to see the credits or any of the act transitions other than those for Act 2 (which occur after the cinematics), since library scene replays cut back to the menu at the end of the scene. Also, the library defaults to a certain set of flags when displaying dialogue, so if you REALLY want to check for subtle differences in routes (e.g. Hisao reacts to the Shanghai differently in Emi's route if he went with Shizune & Misha in Act 1), then you'll also need to play through.

It helps to save the game a lot so you can just reload. :p

brythain wrote:

Serviam wrote:Manly Picnic via Rin > Lilly > Hanako > Rin > Emi.

I was doing Shizune's route when my laptop did a Hisao and died on me.

I bet it was because you tried to comfort some other piece of software.

Nope, just that it's been with us for years... Gundam thing's reached its time, I suppose.

This is exactly like the discussion we had about people not wanting to see the bad endings and people agreeing and disagreeing about why you should or should not do. Everyone is different and everyone enjoys things differently, some like to use flowcharts and avoid making the "wrong" choices and others want the 100% the game. This shouldnt mean that they are playing the game wrong, its just what they enjoy more, so what if they know what choices they have to make or are not really "immersing" themselves. They are not you so let them.

This and many other topics where people's opinions vary can go on endlessly, so its best not to dwell on it

ogorhan wrote:This is exactly like the discussion we had about people not wanting to see the bad endings and people agreeing and disagreeing about why you should or should not do. Everyone is different and everyone enjoys things differently, some like to use flowcharts and avoid making the "wrong" choices and others want the 100% the game. This shouldnt mean that they are playing the game wrong, its just what they enjoy more, so what if they know what choices they have to make or are not really "immersing" themselves. They are not you so let them.

This and many other topics where people's opinions vary can go on endlessly, so its best not to dwell on it

I wouldn't go that far. I think that if you don't see the bad endings, you aren't experiencing the entire work & are short-changing yourself. That, IMO, is different than using a flowchart.

Like any true noob to a virtual novel I "lost"Got the kenji ending first . Then I went and found a guide for all the girls, so I could get all the good endings. Don't judge me . Great game and romances, in order I went in.
-Manly Picnic
-Emi
-Lilly
-Hanako
-ShizuneMisha side the real "win"
-Shizune good end
-Rin

YutotheOrc wrote:-ShizuneMisha side the real "win"

Yeah I kinda dislike Shizune as well. I feel like I found out more about Misha/Kenji than her, and I just finished her route.

Broomhead wrote:

YutotheOrc wrote:-ShizuneMisha side the real "win"

Yeah I kinda dislike Shizune as well. I feel like I found out more about Misha/Kenji than her, and I just finished her route.

Then you didn't pay enough attention.

And the only thing I ever found out about Kenji is that he's out of his mind.

Potato wrote:Then you didn't pay enough attention.

And the only thing I ever found out about Kenji is that he's out of his mind.

During Shizune route you find out that he A: had a girlfriend and broke up with her over trivial matters. This means it had most likely gone on for a while, and also may be what caused him to be so... anti-feminist? and B: That he is kinda aware that there are the (non-existent IMO) feminist autocrats, and girls capable of being related to.

You find out that Misha is A: Lesbian or Bi and B: very emotional even for her type of personality on the inside, and most likely putting out a front of happiness to a lot of people, perhaps even to herself. And she has done this for a while as well.

Whereas most of what I now know about Shizune is stuff I learned indirectly from looking at her family and guessed during my other two playthroughs. That said, was kinda bored for the most part, only really interested during the MIsha breakdown so I guess I might've missed out on subtle hints. That aside, I suppose I also knew a lot about her since she is similar to me in some aspects, so I could do a lot of guesswork from what she said to how she acted to her secrets. That's also how I spent two years of my life, so reading people and guessing at their catalog of life is a talent I've honed.