Katawa Shoujo Forums

This, that's what I'm referencing.

"This" is a confirmation by the route's writer that this theory is rubbish, so why do you bring it up again?

Atario wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways

Mmmmm. This explains a lot about this whole thread.

Perhaps. But that doesn't bother me so much as it does that the times it does occur within the story feel so contrived. As in, it's as though they're there solely to have a sex scene rather than for any other meaningful purpose. After playing through both Hanako and Shizune, it still feels that way. Perhaps Rin or Lilly will be different, hopefully. From what I hear, Emi is something I probably shouldn't bother with...

SpunkySix wrote:

Atario wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways

Mmmmm. This explains a lot about this whole thread.

I have very mixed opinions on this. It doesn't seem wrong in itself, but then you remember that there's potential for a child to happen, and if the relationship isn't stable when it does, that could spell major trouble for a child who did nothing wrong, something I'd feel awful about forever. I was very against it before reading KS, but now it feels like a gray area.

That's one of the reasons that it troubles me, yes. But more importantly, even were that not to be a problem, it's the psychological aspects of it that are most damaging. It causes low self-esteem and a higher probability of divorce, both with that person and with all future persons. Same goes for cohabitation. That, and I've had very close friends be hurt by such things, so it's also a personal matter for me. But that's neither here nor there.

I believe you'll find that in areas of the US where divorce rates are lower and the percentage of those professing belief in typical "Christian" values is higher, domestic violence and spousal rape (if the area even makes spousal rape illegal) occurrences are also higher. I know, correlation isn't causation, but enough correlation looks awfully suspicious.

Basically, premarital sex and cohabitation leading to divorce isn't the actual correlation, it's likely a society more tolerant of divorce (instead of beating or raping your spouse) is one that's also more tolerant of premarital sex and cohabitation.

Mandalorian wrote:

Atario wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways

Mmmmm. This explains a lot about this whole thread.

Perhaps. But that doesn't bother me so much as it does that the times it does occur within the story feel so contrived. As in, it's as though they're there solely to have a sex scene rather than for any other meaningful purpose.

Welcome to the world of visual novels, I'm afraid. IME (admittedly limited), KS is one of the better ones in that regard among those that are romance-oriented.

bhtooefr wrote:I believe you'll find that in areas of the US where divorce rates are lower and the percentage of those professing belief in typical "Christian" values is higher, domestic violence and spousal rape (if the area even makes spousal rape illegal) occurrences are also higher. I know, correlation isn't causation, but enough correlation looks awfully suspicious.

Basically, premarital sex and cohabitation leading to divorce isn't the actual correlation, it's likely a society more tolerant of divorce (instead of beating or raping your spouse) is one that's also more tolerant of premarital sex and cohabitation.

^^^^
This.
But alas, the people acting like that will be left behind in the coming decades.

Mandalorian wrote:The only problem is that the intention wasn't to coax Hisao into bed, just like how when Hisao showed her his scar, it wasn't to coax her into bed. I just went back and rewatched the scene, and she just wanted to show him the full extent of the scarring and better explain what happened to her. And then Hisao starts taking his clothes off and getting all sexual for no reason. It was just very contrived and kind of ruined the mood of what would be an otherwise very touching scene.

Except it was.

And he isn't doing it for no reason. He's doing it because she offered it, and encourages it once it's begun.

Every situation where sex happens in the game makes sense, by the way. At the risk of sounding close-minded, your convictions are archaic and silly. Sex has been around much, much longer than the arbitrary concept of marriage.

And if you find those scenes contrived and meaningless, play it again. Many, though not necessarily all of them, have meaning whether it be a point of tension or building the character. And the ones that don't still technically hold the meaning of "These two people are together so they're fucking because that's how affection and intimacy work."

It's no more contrived than any real couple progressing to sex while together.

Potato wrote:Sex has been around much, much longer than the arbitrary concept of marriage.

So have all of the potential consequences of doing it before being in a position of stability... I've always said, if you want to gamble because the chances of winning are high enough, then fine, but gamble with your own life and not somebody else's.

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:Sex has been around much, much longer than the arbitrary concept of marriage.

So have all of the potential consequences of doing it before being in a position of stability... I've always said, if you want to gamble because the chances of winning are high enough, then fine, but gamble with your own life and not somebody else's.

Yeah, there is no gambling with somebody else's life anyway so that's just a bizarre saying to bring up...

Potato wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:Sex has been around much, much longer than the arbitrary concept of marriage.

So have all of the potential consequences of doing it before being in a position of stability... I've always said, if you want to gamble because the chances of winning are high enough, then fine, but gamble with your own life and not somebody else's.

Yeah, there is no gambling with somebody else's life anyway so that's just a bizarre saying to bring up...

You are putting a yet to be born child at risk by having vaginal sex before your relationship is stable and before you have any sort of reliable financial income. What happens when Emi gets pregnant and then they hit the bad ending?

Like I said, the chances of that happening are low, but the person who pays the most for the loss if it occurs had no say in the matter. It's easy to say that doesn't matter when you aren't involved, but I bet if you ask the kid that has no present father living with a single, uneducated teen mother with no job, he'll tell you the few minutes of fun they had together could have waited.

If she's really that worried she can have an IUD implanted AND tell Hisao to use a rubber. (or some other variety of double dutch) If they properly use contraception, the chances of Hisao dying during sex are actually quite a bit higher than the chances of Emi getting preggers. What if they would have abstained for years, finally marry and then Hisao hnnnnggs on the wedding night?

That said, Emi enjoys sex. There's no way she'd wait that for years.

And, if there's a contraception failure, abortion is available as well.

Can we please stop before this turns into an abortion debate?

Guest Poster wrote:That said, Emi enjoys sex. There's no way she'd wait that for years.

ASIDE: I promise it won't turn into an abortion debate, and so does everybody else here k?

As for what I quoted, that bothers me. It bothers me that people value such a relatively pointless thing that amounts to a few minutes of fun so much and are so impatient that they're totally willing to throw away life-long love, probably the deepest form of friendship, just because they want it and they want it now. Without Emi, (assuming it's her path) Hisao loses his motivation to run and stay healthy, becomes depressed and lonely for who knows how long and most likely dies young. Without Hisao, Emi continues to hurt inside intensely, shuts everybody out and continues to live in denial indefinitely. They're the best thing that's ever happened to them, and you're honestly telling me that having to wait a little to fuck is worth losing that? That's crazy. It totally undermines the concept of love to me. People talk about how they'd take a bullet or do all these things for the ones they love, but keeping it in their pants for a few years is somehow over the line? I don't get it.

And yes, like I said, in a normal situation, the chances of pregnancy with safety on and pills and whatnot are very, very small. That being said, freak accidents aren't unheard of and something isn't responsible just because there is a smaller chance of it going wrong. Every now and then a little irresponsible fun is something that people need, but very few other things in life put somebody at risk who had absolutely no say in the matter because they weren't even born yet, and there are plenty alternatives to sex that can be a ton of fun too that don't do that. Ask any accidental child of a struggling teen mother how glad they are to be living at a disadvantage because their mommy wanted the D really bad.

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:Sex has been around much, much longer than the arbitrary concept of marriage.

So have all of the potential consequences of doing it before being in a position of stability... I've always said, if you want to gamble because the chances of winning are high enough, then fine, but gamble with your own life and not somebody else's.

Except humans don't exist to get married, humans exist to breed.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Can we please stop before this turns into an abortion debate?

Agreed. I'd rather not see this thread get cooked. It's... interesting

Except people are going to have sex, so arguments that people just shouldn't have it are very, very ineffective and harmful.

Also, different people handle sex differently. Some people are demisexuals, who can't have sexual attraction without a romantic connection. Some people decouple the two completely.