Katawa Shoujo Forums

I can't tell you how much it gratifies me to see people coming to the same super-unpopular conclusions I did. Hanako did some wrong, Hisao did some wrong. A far cry from the annoying, simpleminded "it was rape" meme, to be sure, which to me is about a hundred times as white-knight-ey as anything Hisao does anywhere in the entire game. But our couple forgave and forgot by the end. So even though we don't get to glory in the warm fuzzies of a happy relationship for more than about a millisecond, at least it's there.

Yup, there was more than enough blame to go around. Mistakes were made. Can't we just get beyond thunderdome?

Atario wrote:I can't tell you how much it gratifies me to see people coming to the same super-unpopular conclusions I did. Hanako did some wrong, Hisao did some wrong. A far cry from the annoying, simpleminded "it was rape" meme, to be sure, which to me is about a hundred times as white-knight-ey as anything Hisao does anywhere in the entire game. But our couple forgave and forgot by the end. So even though we don't get to glory in the warm fuzzies of a happy relationship for more than about a millisecond, at least it's there.

Yup, there was more than enough blame to go around. Mistakes were made. Can't we just get beyond thunderdome?

I think nearly everyone is mad at Hisao at first just becasue we love Hanako too, and can't stand seeing her hurt. I know I did. But after thinking about it awhile, I think most people develop a more mature attitide about it along the lines that you mentioned. They both made mistakes, but it also helped them grow as people. It leaves us all free to imagine a warm, loving relationship growing out of it. Theres plenty of time for moonlight and rose petal love scenes later.

pandaphil wrote:I think nearly everyone is mad at Hisao at first just becasue we love Hanako too, and can't stand seeing her hurt.

See, that's why I'm in such a minority on this. I wasn't mad at Hisao, even the first time through the scene. And I didn't even really see it as hurting her. Awkward, yes; uncomfortable, yes; but still they did really care for one another and showed real consideration in the process. And, honestly, what else could we expect from such a halting, herky-jerky relationship's early stages between two unsure eighteen-year-olds? Hell, I don't think I would have done much better at that age. Sure, Hisao could have tried to convince her to take things more naturally and all that good stuff, but it also would have been super easy for her to interpret such a thing as a devastating rejection.

Atario wrote:

pandaphil wrote:I think nearly everyone is mad at Hisao at first just becasue we love Hanako too, and can't stand seeing her hurt.

See, that's why I'm in such a minority on this. I wasn't mad at Hisao, even the first time through the scene. And I didn't even really see it as hurting her. Awkward, yes; uncomfortable, yes; but still they did really care for one another and showed real consideration in the process. And, honestly, what else could we expect from such a halting, herky-jerky relationship's early stages between two unsure eighteen-year-olds? Hell, I don't think I would have done much better at that age. Sure, Hisao could have tried to convince her to take things more naturally and all that good stuff, but it also would have been super easy for her to interpret such a thing as a devastating rejection.

A thousand times this.

Basically, Hanako took some drastic action, Hisao got caught up in it, neither really knew what they were doing and both ultimately felt bad about it once they started sorting things out. But they also cared a lot for each other from the get-go, so they moved past it and started a relationship. I think that's a pretty fulfilling conclusion.

First times often suck. Since it'd be difficult for Hanako to relax without her clothes on no matter what, it was almost a given the first time would probably be awkward and not exactly heavenly. I didn't really feel bad after the credits rolled, just because the first time was bad and misguided. They started a relationship, so there'll be other times in the future. Hanako's and Hisao's first time may have been under the wrong circumstances, but at least it was with the right person and deep down, Hisao and Hanako already loved each other at that point in time.

As for the blood-stuff...I hate to point this out, but...not every virgin bleeds during their first time. The "virgins must bleed"-myth is pretty wide-spread though. There are certain countries where young brides have their doctor perform a little procedure on their hymen in order to guarantee the obligatory loss of blood during the first time in order to ease their groom's mind during the wedding night. Yeah...

As for the "worse things"...school bullying's been traditionally a problem in Japan. You don't need rape when there's plenty of other messed-up things kids have shown able to come up with.

Fealow wrote:

Steinherz wrote:That was the only one where it was mentioned because-
A: Lilly was riding Hisao their first time.
B: Hisao was in a much more "observant" manner in Lilly's route.
C: The way Hisao and Hanako were having sex, it'd be a bit difficult to notice any blood.

Speculation is still just speculation, for both me and you. Your points are quite generic and could apply to any situation for any of the girls.

It's not really speculation so much as it's observations.
If you pay attention, Hisao acts differently from himself on each girl's route, for example:

Lilly's: He's much more observant and tends to be an idiot with mixing drugs (stimulants and depressants).
Shizune's: Hisao is much less independent (to Shizune's chagrin )
Emi's: Definitely a lot more physically active

Atario wrote: See, that's why I'm in such a minority on this. I wasn't mad at Hisao, even the first time through the scene. And I didn't even really see it as hurting her. Awkward, yes; uncomfortable, yes; but still they did really care for one another and showed real consideration in the process. And, honestly, what else could we expect from such a halting, herky-jerky relationship's early stages between two unsure eighteen-year-olds? Hell, I don't think I would have done much better at that age. Sure, Hisao could have tried to convince her to take things more naturally and all that good stuff, but it also would have been super easy for her to interpret such a thing as a devastating rejection.

Well I didn't say it was right. Just that its a lot of peoples first reaction to the scene.

It's not really speculation so much as it's observations.
If you pay attention, Hisao acts differently from himself on each girl's route

I'm aware that Hisao has different personality traits when it comes to each path, but this is a given considering who you meet changes who you are to a certain extent in real life just as much as it does in KS. I'm not even sure what there is to discuss on this matter anymore, I was a little confused about the whole thing at first and with the help of others here and me taking different things into consideration I came to a conclusion.

Also I have noticed that in this thread and others that people seem to take my less serious sentences (even humorous ones) as my objective opinion on the matter. For example the whole thing about Hanako not being a virgin and the lack of blood and a few other things. I was merely jesting hence the "DUM DUM DUUUUM!!" at the end of the post. *sigh*

Fealow wrote:

I have noticed that in this thread and others that people seem to take my less serious sentences (even humorous ones) as my objective opinion on the matter. For example the whole thing about Hanako not being a virgin and the lack of blood and a few other things. I was merely jesting hence the "DUM DUM DUUUUM!!" at the end of the post. *sigh*

I got your joke, Fealow. And really, the others might have too, even the ones who replied to it seriously. It provides an interesting jumping-off point for discussion, even if you didn't mean it seriously.

I'm a master at taking jokes too seriously and overanalyzing them.

Even sometimes when I know it's a joke.

Fealow wrote:I think it might be that Hanako actually did something quite wrong regarding such a big moment in their relationship...

Now, Fealow, surely you're not suggesting that an inexperienced teenager did something wrong.

Xanatos wrote:

Fealow wrote:I think it might be that Hanako actually did something quite wrong regarding such a big moment in their relationship...

Now, Fealow, surely you're not suggesting that an inexperienced teenager did something wrong.

Hanako doing something so despicable? Pfft never! is what I would have said a few days ago lol.

What if the one confessing to her was Lilly...

Xanatos wrote:What if the one confessing to her was Lilly...

Hanako would faint.

If Lilly were confessing to her, she wouldn't believe it, just like anyone else confessing to her out of the blue, but for a different reason.

She'd think that Lilly was confessing out of pity.

If Lilly got the timing or methodology wrong, it could echo Misstep surprisingly closely.

Steinherz wrote:

Xanatos wrote:What if the one confessing to her was Lilly...

Hanako would faint.

Yes, but what then? She basically never leaves Lilly's side if she can help it...